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Topic: Boot Unlocking (Read 3855 times) |
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lpmurphy
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Posts: 26
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #20 on: Jun 29th, 2010, 4:23pm » |
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Doh! Just read post! Orientation described wrong! Orientation is solenoid/motor is on lower left! Doh! Doh! I'm loosing it -
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lpmurphy
Newbie
Posts: 26
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #21 on: Jun 29th, 2010, 5:19pm » |
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Hi Guys....just tested the solenoid/motor with a high current source and not a budge! If there is a track/diode maybe its blown? The only thing that concerns me is that I did get a reading of 100 Ohms across the contacts but yet when I give it voltage (+12V) nothing happens! That doesn't square up completely with the idea of a blown diode/track or does it? Comments welcome.
Assuming it's the solenoid/motor then is it best to get a new one? A second hand one would have aged components and I may run into the same trouble again! I'm assuming the only place to get one is a FMD or are there other cheaper sources?
Aprreciate comments re this or anything I may have overlooked!
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #22 on: Jun 29th, 2010, 5:50pm » |
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Just tested it.
When testing for voltage ensure the car is unlocked else you’ll get nought.
Black wire permanent earth.
Black/Orange 12 volts with button pressed – but only for approx 1 second on each press as it comes from the computer.
Yep my pictures downside up 
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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lpmurphy
Newbie
Posts: 26
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #23 on: Jun 29th, 2010, 6:03pm » |
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Hi Tompion - thanks for testing yours. With car unlocked my test was -
Disconnected solenoid/motor from wiring loom
Connected a direct 12V supply to the solenoid/motor connector Black/Orange 12V, Black negative
Reversed connections as well just to be sure but tested it as above first
Nothing happened so assuming solenoid/motor is screwed.
Will re-test and take voltage reading when key switch pressed to make sure sure I have 12V signal from computer. Did you organise it so that the you could read the voltage with key switch pressed with the boot open or closed? I'm assuming the signal would not be present with the boot open if the key switch was pressed?
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #24 on: Jun 29th, 2010, 6:16pm » |
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Tested with the boot open, the wires cunningly change colours at the plug, scratching my head why I couldn't get a resistance at first:
I only get 5.5 ohms between the black & green/yellow – the motor wires.
Try pulling the plunger out & then pressing the button, it should return – might indicate a problem with the track.
(Struck out the above as I've just looked inside the old one & the plunger is free to move with no effect in the retracted position).
I used a second hand one when mine broke a few years ago.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #25 on: Jun 30th, 2010, 4:51pm » |
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100 Ohms seems too high for a motor, on the other hand it's got a diode in series, that will mess up your meter trying to get as sensible reading. Have you tried Ohming it in the opposite direction? Should be infinity, if so then diode is OK. Also at least there is some sort of continuity in the opposite direction.
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Mike H
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #26 on: Jun 30th, 2010, 5:00pm » |
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OK so as usual keep forgetting to go to end of thread. 
5.5 Ohms sounds more like it, but can't square that with the presence of the diode. (?)
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Mike H
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lpmurphy
Newbie
Posts: 26
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #27 on: Jun 30th, 2010, 5:24pm » |
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Hi Mike H! AFAIK tested it both ways & got 100 Ohms which doesn't make sense - if the diode is blown it should be o/c in both directions and o/c in one direction if not blown. Won't have time to work on this as I'm travelling over the next few days so I've just disconnected the locking mechanism for the time being.
I intend to check to see if I'm getting a signal from the computer as Tompion suggested and re-check the wiring colours and re-check my readings for sanity! Won't be able to do this until next Mon.
Could replace diode if it was the issue but only if I can open solenoid/motor casing without damaging it.
Will let you all know how I'm getting on with it!
Very much appreciate all the helpful suggestions from the forum members - thanks again
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Highlander
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Expert
13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #28 on: Jun 30th, 2010, 11:39pm » |
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Want another motor to try first?
pm me your address
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy!  |
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #29 on: Jul 1st, 2010, 11:39am » |
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on Jun 30th, 2010, 4:51pm, Mike H wrote:100 Ohms seems too high for a motor, on the other hand it's got a diode in series, that will mess up your meter trying to get as sensible reading. Have you tried Ohming it in the opposite direction? Should be infinity, if so then diode is OK. Also at least there is some sort of continuity in the opposite direction.
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Thought I’d better have a look inside the old one to check it was a diode
I wasn’t sure what it was so googled for the number which seems to indicate it is a diode (a small white sphere with a black band & 1N5061PH), but it’s in parallel across the motor terminals.
I’ve also modified my previous post as manually moving the plunger has no effect in the retracted position.
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #30 on: Jul 1st, 2010, 12:25pm » |
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It opens easily enough, keep your thumb on the plunger to stop the spring flying out.
The contact on the plastic part of the plunger swivels about the guides & tracks in the other half of the case.
I’ve only laid it out this way for the picture, you’d assemble it all in the half with the motor.
This one had a broken tooth in the pinion that gears with the rack – it caused the motor to jamb open so I couldn’t close the boot.
I replaced the tooth with a steel pin & then found the motor had packed up so replaced the whole thing with one from shaun.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Simmo
Administrator
I'm an OAP !
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #31 on: Jul 1st, 2010, 2:03pm » |
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Another Tompion dissection !!
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Now I'm an OAP
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #32 on: Jul 1st, 2010, 6:45pm » |
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on Jul 1st, 2010, 11:39am, Tompion wrote:
Thought I’d better have a look inside the old one to check it was a diode
I wasn’t sure what it was so googled for the number which seems to indicate it is a diode (a small white sphere with a black band & 1N5061PH), but it’s in parallel across the motor terminals.
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A-ha! I know why that is, it's to stop back EMF from the motor blowing up the CCM.
Confused? You will be
So either the diagram is drawn wrong or it's the other type that incorporates a switch so works more like the door locks. And this has a switch in it
Anyway explains why it Ohms in 2 directions, but 100R stil seems high. Maybe bad brushes or winding (?)
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Mike H
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lpmurphy
Newbie
Posts: 26
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #33 on: Jul 1st, 2010, 10:17pm » |
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Hi Tompion & Mike H..you have certainly been busy with this. Now at least we have some idea what the plunger is operated by - a small DC motor. Tompion has identified that there is a diode in use and Mike H has indicated its to deal with the the back EMF of the motor. If the dioede has malfunctioned they normally o/c but if it has failed in the s/c mode then the back EMF may have damaged the CCM output for the boot lock?
I will check all this when I get back from my trip and I will up-date the forum.
Thanks Tompion and Mike H for your hard work on this!
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #34 on: Jul 2nd, 2010, 9:34am » |
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I doubt it, my money's on it being nearly o/c with a resistance of 100R, need to try it on a proper 12V source see if it runs. 100R will only get 120mA, I don't think that's enough even for a small motor.
I would've thought motor / brushes wearing out from years of use is more likely.
You could try testing for the 12V pulse from the CCM activating lead when the button is pressed with a Voltmeter but it will have a short 'on' time. Meaning may be difficult for the Voltmeter to register it in time
But my first option would most likely be take the module apart and see if I can get the motor to work before I start worrying about what else could be wrong
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Mike H
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #35 on: Jul 2nd, 2010, 9:45am » |
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My first option would be to plug in another motor and see if thats the problem
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #36 on: Jul 2nd, 2010, 10:02am » |
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on Jul 2nd, 2010, 9:45am, Highlander wrote:| My first option would be to plug in another motor and see if thats the problem |
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I agree
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #37 on: Jul 2nd, 2010, 10:05am » |
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Re diode, does it look like this?
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/powerex/1N5059.pdf
One of the things it could be used for is "arc suppression" which makes sense.
On thing that puzzles me is the rack and pinion arrangement implies it has to be reversed to return the plunger, but I can't see how the Voltage to the motor can be reversed
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Mike H
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #38 on: Jul 2nd, 2010, 10:07am » |
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on Jul 2nd, 2010, 9:45am, Highlander wrote:| My first option would be to plug in another motor and see if thats the problem |
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LOL yes you could you've problee got zillions of spare ones lying about
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Mike H
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Highlander
Moderator
Expert
13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
Posts: 8244
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Re: Boot Unlocking
« Reply #39 on: Jul 2nd, 2010, 10:46am » |
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One of the Zillions is on its way to County Kildare 
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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