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Topic: gearbox oil in water ????? (Read 8261 times) |
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tiggerlit
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scorpio ultima auto 2.3 estate r reg
 
Posts: 164
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gearbox oil in water ?????
« on: Aug 18th, 2010, 1:17am » |
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hi everyone
thanks for all the previous help you gave me xox
but here goes another one that even the garage is puzzled by.
theres automatic gearbox oil in the water system and the expansion tank, its like a coffee milkshake colour and semi thick. had a head test done and thats fine. first of all the garage said the radiator must have a crack as thats the only point they meet, so i got a rad which was in good nick, flushed the system out so that there was no more gunk in it, cleared all the gunk from exspansion tank and refilled. after doing about 10 miles the following day,and now we are backed to square one
again with loads of gunk, and now the tempature gauge wont work, and the fans wont come on. also the gearbox was a bit jumpy like lack of oil. so took it to the garage and they are basically scratching their heads as they havent got a clue.
we cant be without a car due to my health but we dont want to drive it incase it causes bigger probs.
so has anyone come across this problem before
thanks for the help
also my smilies wont work on here, any ideas why
becki
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5stud
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I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 436
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #1 on: Aug 18th, 2010, 9:11am » |
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sorrey but its 99% certain that you have the same problem ase member certain.the oil feed to the head burst.you may be able to test if its atf ore oil but to be 100%certain you have to take the head off.
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Cosray
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8th Scorpio, 2nd Cosworth: currently '95
Posts: 569
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #2 on: Aug 18th, 2010, 9:49am » |
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Hi all - I am surprised to learn there is a possibility of ATF mixing with coolant... now where could that happen?
I have experienced engineoil mixing with coolant of course and vice versa - but ATF? That's in the autobox, confined as it were?
What location in the car would when malfunctioning allow to have the two fluids mix?
Curious,
Ray
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #3 on: Aug 18th, 2010, 9:58am » |
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on Aug 18th, 2010, 9:49am, Cosray wrote:Hi all - I am surprised to learn there is a possibility of ATF mixing with coolant... now where could that happen?
I have experienced engineoil mixing with coolant of course and vice versa - but ATF? That's in the autobox, confined as it were?
What location in the car would when malfunctioning allow to have the two fluids mix?
Curious,
Ray |
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hi there
have a read of this page near the bottom....
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/leaks.htm
hth
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gozz
Senior Member
Been around awhile
Posts: 3475
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #4 on: Aug 18th, 2010, 12:44pm » |
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tiggerlit.
Did your repairer pressure test the radiator oil cooler ? If it is leaking I would expect coolant to be in the transmission because the cooling system pressure is much higher than that in the transmission oil cooler circuit.Is your auto fluid a normal colour and at the proper level when hot with the engine running ? If all is normal in the foregoing you have a cylinder head problem,and what you are seeing is an oily,rusty emulsion.
GOZZ.
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tiggerlit
Full Member
scorpio ultima auto 2.3 estate r reg
Posts: 164
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #5 on: Aug 18th, 2010, 1:49pm » |
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hi thanks for all the replies.
its 100% not the head and engine oil. it is atf, we keep losing the transmission fluid so have to keep topping it up, but the condition of the oil is fine. i read the link, so now im confused on how its this way round and not the coolent into the atf. but we are going to check all the hoses etc like it said on the link page. there is no visible sign of atf leaking from the gearbox too, so its got to be going into the water somewhere. the rad was brand new unless it was my luck that it has a split or something in it. the oil also has a different smell.
maybe im the first person to have this problem with a scorpio lol.
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Highlander
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Expert
13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
Posts: 8244
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #6 on: Aug 18th, 2010, 1:54pm » |
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Could you take a picture of the gearbox pipes going into the radiator and the cooler underneath?
just in case theres some sort of modification somewhere? 
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy! |
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tiggerlit
Full Member
scorpio ultima auto 2.3 estate r reg
Posts: 164
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #7 on: Aug 18th, 2010, 2:02pm » |
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hiya you did you get my email the other day?
thats a good thought, as the cat was different too, there was something else too that was done different but cant remember what it was.
but yeah ill take a pic and put it up on here. if i cant do it could i email you the pic and you put it up for me?? pretty please lol
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
Posts: 8244
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #8 on: Aug 18th, 2010, 2:37pm » |
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Yep will do, take few if you can,
i'm pretty intrigued by the cat thing, the 16v's use the same cat so I'd like to see the one you have on yours
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Cosray
Full Member
8th Scorpio, 2nd Cosworth: currently '95
Posts: 569
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #9 on: Aug 18th, 2010, 3:50pm » |
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on Aug 18th, 2010, 9:58am, scorpio_man wrote:
Scorpioman, thx for educating me.
I never realised that there was a possible crossover location in this radiator... depending on the respective pressures in autobox and coolant a haircrack might be mixing those fluids vice versa... so there is danger of coolant in the autobox as well!
1) So, does it not follow THAT is the culprit?
2) Would these head-scratching garage tecchies not know this?
3) BTW the car is not a 24v, is it? Same chance of problem though? Same rad?
Curious
Ray
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
Posts: 8244
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #10 on: Aug 18th, 2010, 3:58pm » |
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It SHOULD be Ray, however I dont think all is as it should be with this particular Scorpio, I suspect it has had some sort of modifications done to it...
The pictures may reveal all
its a 2.3
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #11 on: Aug 18th, 2010, 9:11pm » |
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It is possible your replacement rad is faulty. Did they test the old one to see if that did have a fault?
Does your coolant system pressurise? Presumably if the rad cap is faulty (not pressurising) as well as the rad fault the ATF could get into the coolant.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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tiggerlit
Full Member
scorpio ultima auto 2.3 estate r reg
Posts: 164
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #12 on: Aug 19th, 2010, 12:21am » |
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hi thanks for that no one never thought of that, and they didnt do a pressure test on the coolant either.
what do you mean by the rad cap? or do you mean the expansion cap? but it does make sence
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gozz
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Been around awhile
Posts: 3475
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #13 on: Aug 19th, 2010, 9:54am » |
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tiggerlit.
The rad water/oil cooler is simply tested by removing the oil pipes from the rad and putting a pressure gauge in one orifice and an air supply in the other,apply about 10 psi and ascertain whether or not pressure is maintained.I am not suggesting YOU do it,the garage should have sufficient tackle to test it though.
GOZZ.
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #14 on: Aug 19th, 2010, 11:35am » |
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Yes, the expansion cap.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Cosray
Full Member
8th Scorpio, 2nd Cosworth: currently '95
Posts: 569
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #15 on: Aug 19th, 2010, 6:26pm » |
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Hey guys - if there exists this crossover leak in the rad - should there not be ATF in the coolant AND coolant in the ATF i.e. autobox as well?
Would the autobox not screw up when having coolant in the ATF?
Would it not be worth a check on the ATF composition?
Just a suggestion for what it is worth (thinking about my own dear Cossie..!)...
Ray
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tiggerlit
Full Member
scorpio ultima auto 2.3 estate r reg
Posts: 164
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #16 on: Sep 5th, 2010, 2:23am » |
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hi everyone back again with the same problem but not solved- heres the update-
radiaitor replaced
oil cooler replaced
expansion tank and cap replaced
flushed god knows how many times now
head tested no probs so head gasket not gone
100% atf is in the coolant system
but still having this problem
even ford confused
i have taken pics of the expansion tank with the crap in these were taken as we took the top off and it over flowed due to air lock.
so any ideas??
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tiggerlit
Full Member
scorpio ultima auto 2.3 estate r reg
Posts: 164
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #17 on: Sep 5th, 2010, 2:30am » |
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highlander can you give me your email address plzzzzzz so that i can email you the pics as cant do it aarrrrgggg x
thanks
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gozz
Senior Member
Been around awhile
Posts: 3475
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #18 on: Sep 5th, 2010, 7:24am » |
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tiggerlit.
Highlander's email is on his profile,click on his user name.
GOZZ.
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: gearbox oil in water ?????
« Reply #19 on: Sep 5th, 2010, 11:02am » |
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Is the oil level still dropping on the autobox? I believe it can be really difficult shifting oil from the system especially the matrix. If the oil level is no longer dropping it might be worth bypassing the matrix by connecting the two matrix hoses directly together – you’re less likely to have an airlock with the matrix out of the system.
If you’re 100% sure it’s ATF then the following doesn’t matter.
These heads can suffer with a cracked oilway (especially if the engine has ever overheated), a compression test won’t show it & the headgasket doesn’t play a part.
It is also possible to have oil leaking via the head gasket to the waterways without affecting the compression.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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