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Topic: Probem with interior buzzing noise (Read 5928 times) |
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cafsyn
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Probem with interior buzzing noise
« on: Sep 4th, 2010, 3:28pm » |
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Hi all
I have an annoying problem with buzzing noise (warning alarm) inside car and I've seen similar issues mentioned on the forum, but nothing quite the same.
Symptoms:
1. when engine switched on, it's OK, but when I engage gear, then buzzer comes on
2. interior lights failed
What I've tried having read forum:
1. removed fuses 24 and 26 - this works to kill the noise when driving (thank god), but interior lights and radio not operating (all else OK ... though alarm now goes off sometimes when I start engine unless I keep door open (!!), but maybe a separate issue for another time?)
2. replaced fuses #24 and #36 - sadly, fuse #36 kept blowing (or maybe it was #24, can't quite remember ... I can check if it's important) - this didn't work!
3. replaced relay R16, but this didn't help
Before going to garage, does anyone have any ideas what might be wrong? is it timer module?
cheers Carl
04.09.2010
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #1 on: Sep 4th, 2010, 3:44pm » |
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Fuse 36 is the most likely problem, if it keeps blowing then you need to find out why.
When removing the interior light panel it can blow fuse 36 (presumably shorting in the process of removing the panel) so you could check for problems there.
What happens if you take out fuse 24 & replace fuse 36, does it still blow?
These electrical problems can be time consuming & garages tend not to know much about Scorpio’s – so likely to be expensive if you go down that route.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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tonyboy
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black2.924Vcoss ( No More )
  
 
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #2 on: Sep 4th, 2010, 4:28pm » |
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Is the buzzing a continuous buzz or is it dingggggg .... dingggggg sound as if you have left it in gear with the door open or the lights with the engine off and the door open
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I think i'm going, erm what do you call it..... Senial.... 
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Mike H
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Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #3 on: Sep 5th, 2010, 1:51pm » |
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Yes it's a continuous buzzing or "bleeeeeeeep..." if a door is opened when ignition on, running and in gear. So suggests dodgy door switch (?)
And 'ding ding' chiming when ignition turned off but lights left on and door is opened.
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Mike H
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Geoff_W
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98 Ulti2.5tdi Auto
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #5 on: Sep 5th, 2010, 10:12pm » |
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Cafsyn,
I think Mike has hit it for you.
PRND switch has a warning buzzer that goes of if the vehicle is running, in gear and the drivers door is open. Safety measure and in your case your problem may be a doorswitch. When you say interior lights failed do they operate when doors other than the drivers door is open, or can you switch them on from within the car, in which case it really looks like a doorswitch.
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The winding road goes on and on... or at least it does in Northumberland
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Cosray
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8th Scorpio, 2nd Cosworth: currently '95
Posts: 569
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #6 on: Sep 5th, 2010, 10:44pm » |
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In fact it is the Central Timer Module which produces the ding-dong sound.
It is here:
http://picasaweb.google.nl/babpic123/LocatieCentralTimerRadioInterface11 jun10?authkey=Gv1sRgCOyqvbP3-_7dZw&feat=directlink
This module, dedicated to all timing & chiming functions, is controlled by the Autogear lever position potentiometer, the KEY-IN, lights-on and driver door entry-light switch through the CCM's software, next to the EEC-V.
The CTM will also dim the entry lights through the entry light relay as well as the Battery Saver relay, after one hour of door(s) open.
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/handbook134.gif
Fuse 36 Battery Saver is here:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/handbook132.gif
Depending on the various parameters the CCM will trigger the Central Timing Module.
It is not controilled by the door-ajar switches, which will only trigger the relevant dash light and/or inhibit the alarm/central locking system.
If there is a short in the door entry light switches cabling or lamps the Central Timer lacks a proper signal and will chime.
Here's the diagram, showing both paths for F24 and F36:
http://cid-eb36f845ea9b8fb6.office.live.com/self.aspx/WIRING%20DIAGRAMS/ ENTRY%20ILLUMINATION.pdf
So please check if ALL doorswitches will function and make the interior lights go ON/OFF.
Also make sure the 20 seconds timing function is available. If not this could point to a failing Central Timer, not its sound effect but specifically its timing and switching function.
... and there is another famous culprit for these symptoms: the 10 or so connectors' contacts under the junctionbox with the big multi-plug. You can just about touch them by reaching up into the A-beam from the inside under the dash. Disconnect all, sprayclean and replace.
Pictures here:
http://picasaweb.google.nl/babpic123/ScorpioFotoSVoorForum?authkey=Gv1sR gCOKb-6D8qY2NhAE&feat=directlink
In conclusion, sometimes the single-wire faston-contact on the doorswitch, inside the beam, will drop off into the beam and make ground contact.
The CTM will understand this as a permanent "door-open" and will continuously chime.
If one of the doorswitches fails this might be the cause for all symptoms and easily cured..
HTH
Ray
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cafsyn
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #7 on: Sep 8th, 2010, 12:07am » |
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Hi all
Really great responses so far!
I just went out to check and this is what happens in details
Fuse #24 - putting this back alone sets off continuous "beeeeping" when gear engaged, the radio now works, but fuse doesn't blow
Fuse #36 - putting this back alone doesn't set off noise in gear, and does not blow
Fuse #24 and #36 together - this blows the #36 fuse when ignition engaged
Regards model - it's 5 dr ultima estate, 2.3 16v automatic, 1997 P reg
The interior lights don't operate at all, no matter what I do - i.e. put back fuse 24 or fuse 36 makes no difference
Driver door switch must be OK to some extent since when engine on and in neutral , the noise goes on / off when door is open / closed respectively - seems like an intermittent issue, but not main cause of fuse 36 blowing - i'll get door switch renewed anyway to be sure
I'll have to think about the multiplug under dash, not too familiar - sounds like a good suggestion though
If the above helps pin down the issue, then happy to hear further
cheers Carl
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #8 on: Sep 8th, 2010, 10:02am » |
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The door switch simply earths the 2 wires connected to it, no point in replacing it if the sound stops when you push the switch in. It won't be the switch itself blowing the fuse.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #9 on: Sep 8th, 2010, 10:38am » |
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With fuse 36 removed the interior lights won’t work but the radio should. If the fuse blows when you put back fuse 24 then you are probably looking for a short somewhere, this is unlikely to be the multiplug under the dash (fusebox connections).
Look behind all the interior lights including the floor lights front & back which sometimes get a kicking. Bear in mind what I said in my first post – just removing/ replacing the lights live can blow fuse 36.
Just noticed you say
"this blows the #36 fuse when ignition engaged"
Are you sure it doesn't blow until you turn on the ignition?
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Cosray
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8th Scorpio, 2nd Cosworth: currently '95
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #10 on: Sep 8th, 2010, 11:56am » |
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Carl, do you read electronics diagrams?
From the link I posted it follows that the relationship between Fuse 24 and 36 is the Battery Saver Relay K115 (Batt Junction Box) and the Entry Illumination Relay K112 (Central Junction Box).
Since you mention IGN ON induces the fault, electronically seen, downstream, the BSR comes before the EIR in other words when IGN OFF the BSR will stay enrgised during one hour or so with the aim of delayed switching off all current to the interior lights of which the Ultima holds many.
My first guess would be to inspect that relay/socket as it carries both +12 and Ground and is a moving candidate for a short.
HTH
Ray
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #11 on: Sep 8th, 2010, 12:01pm » |
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on Sep 8th, 2010, 11:56am, Cosray wrote:| Since you mention IGN ON induces the fault, electronically seen, downstream, the BSR comes before the EIR in other words when IGN OFF the BSR will stay enrgised during one hour or so with the aim of delayed switching off all current to the interior lights of which the Ultima holds many. |
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I tried 3 times to follow that but I had to give up! 
I'm afraid I'm just a spanners and hammers mechanic
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy! |
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Cosray
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8th Scorpio, 2nd Cosworth: currently '95
Posts: 569
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #12 on: Sep 8th, 2010, 12:44pm » |
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Highlander, I'd expected Carl to complain, not you 
What it means is: inspect the BSR - Battery Saver Relay; couldn't that be exchanged for test purposes for another one?
Alt. inspect the EIR - Entry Illumination Relay.
HTH
Ray
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #13 on: Sep 8th, 2010, 2:22pm » |
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And just to confuse matters more the interior light relay is R5 - labelled heated rear screen in the handbook.
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Cosray
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8th Scorpio, 2nd Cosworth: currently '95
Posts: 569
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #14 on: Sep 8th, 2010, 2:40pm » |
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Tompion, thx for reminding us, there are two named identically - true!
Ray
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gozz
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #15 on: Sep 8th, 2010, 8:44pm » |
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Cafsyn.
Could your central timer module be up the creek ? have you tried removing the plug from the bottom of it,under the dash behind the lower soft cover near the left knee on RHD cars,at least that will stop the beeping,the unit also controls the intermittent wipers.
GOZZ.
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Mike H
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Renault Clio
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #16 on: Sep 11th, 2010, 12:44pm » |
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Wet / corroded fuse box? Broken wire? Shorted wire?
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Mike H
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Cosray
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8th Scorpio, 2nd Cosworth: currently '95
Posts: 569
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #17 on: Sep 20th, 2010, 8:23pm » |
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Cafsyn - what's happenin'?
Any luck with our suggestions?
Curious,
Ray
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cafsyn
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #18 on: Sep 20th, 2010, 10:09pm » |
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Hi Ray and others helping out, appreciated
Just logged on after a few days away
I'll need to read the info carefully now!
Give me a few days to figure out, it's a steep learning curve
From one of the replies, I like the idea of unplugging the loudspeaker making the racket .....
cheers Carl
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cafsyn
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Re: Probem with interior buzzing noise
« Reply #19 on: Oct 2nd, 2010, 9:40pm » |
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Commiserations to Lee for a similar posting, earplugs are a good investment perhaps!
Clarification for my situation:
As ever, fuse 36 blows (when fuse 24 in place) .... ignition does not need to be ON ..... in latest check, the key was inserted into ignition socket, but key not turned at all – incidentally, driver door was open at time. Hence, don’t know what happens when key out, door closed, etc.... I’ve now run out of fuses to ping. 
Problem happened on engine start up (back in March!) .... work around was removing fuse 24, as you know. Now I’ve detached CTM cable, ultimate noise pollution approach, thanks for that pointer.
Based on Ray’s and other comments, I looked at wiring diagrams ... I had already a while ago replaced R16 relay (presumably, the same as K115 battery saver relay, BSR) – this makes no difference to my problem – fuse 36 still blows.
Hence, I focussed on R5 now removed from base (presumably, the same as K112, central junction box, CJB). The R5 relay seemed to be identical to my spare relay when I tested resistance between the contacts. Also, same behaviour as relay in R4 position. So far, so good.
No fuse in 36 now, but having put fuse 24 back, of course, I then tested voltage in base unit of R5 and R4 relays, just to get a comparison. BTW, I assume the base unit for R5 (and R4) should not come out of underlying “circuit board” ... at least, I didn’t want to pull too hard!
Anyhow, voltage pattern was different, not sure if this is an issue or not :
R5 – found 12 volts between “base unit” nodes 86 and 30 only – this was slightly concerning since it was different to R4, but I wasn't sure if important
R4 –found 12 volts between “base unit” nodes 87 and 30 only – this seems to make sense given this is where the ”open, high resistance” switch would go across (when relay is put back)
This is as far I have got
Final comment - interior lights not working at all, so maybe I should be looking for that "short". I haven't taken light panels etc out yet .... is that what I should be doing now?
cheers carl
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