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Topic: Battery/alternator/something else? (Read 944 times) |
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ambyuk
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Battery/alternator/something else?
« on: Dec 18th, 2010, 9:11pm » |
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Hi, it's me again! Hope some of you can help me pinpoint what's going on here...
I have a 1995 M Reg 24v Scorpio Ultima.
2 weeks ago I accidentally left a fan heater plugged in to the car while I was gone for half an hour. When I got back to the car it wouldn't start. I left it for 10 mins then tried starting it again, it did start, I pulled out of the parking space and all of a sudden the car died.
Someone was kind enough to jump start me, and I gave it a good run, and it's been fine since - though I haven't used it incredibly much, probably every other day.
Today I got in the car and it was running for a while with heated windscreen/back window on, heated seat on, fan full blast, lights on. My daughter had a lot of trouble buckling her seatbelt so we didn't drive away for a while. I noticed that the lights looked quite dim on the dash, but as it was daytime I just dismissed that. However when I got to the garage about 1/2mi away and slowed down to turn in I lost the power steering and noticed that several lights were on on the dash (didn't see all that were on, think it was at least ABS, battery, and airbag - but that one's faulty and goes on and off all the time). I pulled up to the pump and stopped, turned off the engine, and tried to turn it back on but nothing happened at all; it didn't even click or try to start whatsoever. I left the car at the pump for about 10-15mins then tried starting again (after having refuelled...) and it started fine, I cautiously put on the lights but they were fine too. I then drove about 10mi away, and it was fine all the way, but once I got into town and slowed down a bit (to about 20 rather than 30-40 on the main road) the lights started flickering. It was getting worse and worse, and I was worried the power steering was going to go again so I quickly parked. I revved the engine a bit and the lights brightened back up, then I turned the car off.
When I turned the car back on it started fine, and I didn't have a problem again all the way home, though now when I start it, before I go anywhere I rev it a bit to make sure it's not going to die straight away (poor people at Asda heard the revs and thought I was going to run over them).
I should mention that for ages now I've noticed occasionally the lights dim slightly - but only slightly. Not sure if that's normal or not.
Anyway I'm wondering if these problems could be related to the jump start at all, since I had no problems before. I'm a bit worried about taking my car out now, I live in rural NE aberdeenshire and the roads are pretty rubbish at the moment and I have 3 small children!
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Matt
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Manual'd and a 4.0 in the making
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Re: Battery/alternator/something else?
« Reply #1 on: Dec 18th, 2010, 9:20pm » |
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Sound like you fully drained the battery (into the realms of deep discharge) with the heater and its only just got the charge to start it. connect it to a battery charger over night if possible. hopefully you havent killed it
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FDS2000 Scans - Birmingham
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ambyuk
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Re: Battery/alternator/something else?
« Reply #2 on: Dec 18th, 2010, 9:38pm » |
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But it ran for 2 weeks fine in between....
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Tenfut
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White Cosworth Saloon
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Re: Battery/alternator/something else?
« Reply #3 on: Dec 18th, 2010, 9:45pm » |
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But remember its a Scorpio 
I agree with Matt 
Tenfut
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PJDavis
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2 x 1995 Jag X300 3.2 / 4.0 (Henley) 1957 XK140
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Re: Battery/alternator/something else?
« Reply #4 on: Dec 18th, 2010, 10:24pm » |
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Aye it's been pretty bad up here, you can't be that far from me, I'm about 85 miles West of Aberdeen. I would say the battery is goosed, lost a cell or somesuch, you need to test it or get it tested with a high-rate discharger. I wonder if the correct battery is fitted? When jump-starting, DON'T connect the negative from the donor car to the negative of your battery, connect it to a good earth point on the engine. 10 miles is barely enough to bring a battery back to what it was before you started it, let alone put any kind of charge into it, that coupled with using the window heaters and seat heater and lights, I reckon you'd need 15 miles of good running before the battery would just come level. On another note, you mention noticing the lights going dim, are you sure the lights have not been normal, but then getting slightly brighter before sort of flicking back to the 'dimmer' normal? This would indicate a rectifier fault in the alternator, another reason to give the battery a trickle charge over 24 hours, then do the high-rate discharge. If the battery holds, then get the alternator checked. The car has had no welding done to it in the near past has it?
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1995 Jaguar XJ6 X300 3.2 (Henley)
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
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Re: Battery/alternator/something else?
« Reply #5 on: Dec 21st, 2010, 1:16am » |
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ambyuk wrote....."However when I got to the garage about 1/2mi away and slowed down to turn in I lost the power steering and noticed that several lights were on on the dash (didn't see all that were on, think it was at least ABS, battery, and airbag - but that one's faulty and goes on and off all the time)."
Loss of power steering indicates that either the engine had momentarily or nearly stalled, as the drive belt had stopped or nearly stopped turning.
Assuming that there are no seized pullys (alternator, PS pump, air con pump, water pump, idler) that would stop the drive belt from turning, then it does sound like an electrical problem....possibly a badly connected earth somewhere or a loose battery connection, especially the small black lead that goes on the battery neg terminal.
Hope this helps 
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amigafan2003
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Re: Battery/alternator/something else?
« Reply #6 on: Dec 21st, 2010, 9:15am » |
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on Dec 21st, 2010, 1:16am, Jonnycab wrote:ambyuk wrote....."However when I got to the garage about 1/2mi away and slowed down to turn in I lost the power steering..............
Loss of power steering indicates that either the engine had momentarily or nearly stalled, as the drive belt had stopped or nearly stopped turning. |
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Remember that 24v's have speed sensitive steering, controlled electronically. Loss of electric would cause the steering to enter "default mode" - which is a fair bit heavier than the full low speed power assistance.
Loss of speed sensitive steering at low speed can feel like total loss of power steering.
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Jonnycab
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Re: Battery/alternator/something else?
« Reply #7 on: Dec 21st, 2010, 11:56am » |
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on Dec 21st, 2010, 9:15am, amigafan2003 wrote:
Remember that 24v's have speed sensitive steering, controlled electronically. Loss of electric would cause the steering to enter "default mode" - which is a fair bit heavier than the full low speed power assistance.
Loss of speed sensitive steering at low speed can feel like total loss of power steering.
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Good point....sorry, forgot about that 
I suppose then that also if the battery/alternator are suspect then, the power steering may go stiff as the engine revs drop when turning slowly as the PS pressure switch won't cause the engine revs to increase to compensate for the extra load being applied by turning slowly
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Malcolm73
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Re: Battery/alternator/something else?
« Reply #8 on: Dec 21st, 2010, 12:43pm » |
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The fan heater plugged into the car’s 12v supply will have significantly discharged the battery and it would not start. Was the battery so low that it could not turn the engine at normal cranking speed? Then later it started! Could it be that your battery terminals are dirty or not tight enough. I have known cold weather and heavy cranking amps to effectively cause battery post to cable clip to act as an electrical resistance to the extent of becoming an electrical insulator! Have you checked the standing battery voltage to about 12.6 volts at the battery terminal post and the clip around the terminal post?
Your power steering failed! Do you have enough fluid in the reservoir? I believe that the belt is common to the steering pump and the alternator. If your lights dimmed and the power steering faltered then considering the cold weather the belt which is common to the alternator and steering pump may have slipped. Is the belt in good condition, is it tight, does it have oil on it, even snow or ice?
If the battery and electrics are all in good condition then lights are unlikely to vary much in the way of intensity.
If the belt has slipped then it would not be surprising if warning lights were activated.
Hope the car is now O.K.
Malcolm73
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Battery/alternator/something else?
« Reply #9 on: Dec 21st, 2010, 2:20pm » |
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is the belt tensioner ok?
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up ! Too much for an old boy!  |
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Mike H
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Renault Clio
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Re: Battery/alternator/something else?
« Reply #10 on: Dec 26th, 2010, 1:56pm » |
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^ What Matt & PJ & Malcolm said.
Must never underestimate how much juice a Scorpio uses. Scary amounts. Like when you first turn it on, about a 100 Watts goes down each O2 sensor preheater. Screen heaters, about another 100 Watts each, maybe, and so on and so on. Lights on, add up the Wattage of each bulb. 110 Watts just for dipped headlights. Some years ago it used to be said you need about 20 minutes at "cruising speed" just to put back what the starter motor took out, and that was for cars much less electrically complex than the Scorpio.
Although the alternator is geared up quite a bit, you still need a reasonable amount of engine revs to keep everything up. Idling in traffic queues in town doesn't do it. Short journeys are the kiss of death, which is why I often put a battery charger on at reasonably regular intervals.
Still, worth making sure the battery is basically OK.
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Mike H
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