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Topic: Battery Draining (Read 2647 times) |
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oz-World
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Posts: 29
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Battery Draining
« on: Jan 10th, 2011, 9:12pm » |
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Been having problems at night, when I switch the heater on.
I stopped at a garage to fill up, and the car would not start up, nor the engine turn, had to get a jump start.
Can someone give me a clue as to why this is happening, runs fine during the day, I have fitted a new battery and alternator.
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Cosray
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8th Scorpio, 2nd Cosworth: currently '95
Posts: 569
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #1 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 7:34am » |
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Hi oz
... what model engine etc.?
... what battery?
... what circumstances?
... battery light fainltly glowing, invisibly behind steeringwheel spokes?
Look here for more info, tests...
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/battery.htm
Curious,
Ray
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oz-World
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Posts: 29
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #2 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 9:33am » |
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Scorpio 95 N Reg 2.5TDi
The basic problem is at night when the electrics are boosted
i.e can't have the lights on with the heater and visa versa.
Heavy duty battery, and been discharge tested.
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #3 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 10:07am » |
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Oh I had this with a diesel!
Does it have climate control?
Do an instrument reset and cycle through to the displayed values until you reach : bAtt (Ignition voltage)
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/instreset.htm
It should display around 13.2 volts at idle, even with a full electrical load, lights/heated screen etc
mine was only displaying between 11 and 12.2 unless i revved it hard, therefore wasnt charging the battery
BUT.... it was only doing this when the heater fan was turned on (even if set to auto and not running)
if i turned the heater fan off manually all was well and the ignition voltage returned to 13.2
A new CC panel sorted mine
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy!  |
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oz-World
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Posts: 29
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #4 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 11:56am » |
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Cheers will give it a go.
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oz-World
Newbie
Posts: 29
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #5 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 12:09pm » |
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okay at test
idle 14.5
heater on 12.1
+ lights on 11.2
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #6 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 12:14pm » |
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14.5 seems high.
If you turn the heater fan off and run all the lights etc what does it read?
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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oz-World
Newbie
Posts: 29
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #7 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 12:18pm » |
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14.3 when Idle.
Does have a new heavy duty battery and alternator
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oz-World
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Posts: 29
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #8 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 12:21pm » |
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Light on and no heater was 12.0
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Cosray
Full Member
8th Scorpio, 2nd Cosworth: currently '95
Posts: 569
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #9 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 12:27pm » |
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... way too low.
Check all powercables for oxydation, rust, rattle, loose. Turn all nuts and bolts!
Does your batteryindicatorlight on the dash invisible behind the wheel faintly glow in the dark? That would be one diode gone from the pack.
Also groundcables, notorious...
Does your radio make a wheezing sound that rises with revs?
If so it would point to serious increased internal resistance in the charging circuit's wiring whereby more current flows from the battery than IN.
Read here
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/electsystemtest.htm
HTH
Ray
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oz-World
Newbie
Posts: 29
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #10 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 12:37pm » |
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CHEERS will go do some checks, and will let you know
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oz-World
Newbie
Posts: 29
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #11 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 3:26pm » |
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Hi,
Right I have checked all the cables and they are fine.
re-did the reset.
heater off and lights on 13.3
heater on and lights off 12.5
heater and lights on 11.5
also tested the alternator, disconnected when engine running this was fine, till turned heater on then the engine stopped.
Battery fine too.
no probs with batterylight indicator.
Radio fine too
any ideas!
Martyn
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #12 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 3:41pm » |
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Change your CC panel 
p.s. diconnecting the alternator with the engine running can damage it 
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Cosray
Full Member
8th Scorpio, 2nd Cosworth: currently '95
Posts: 569
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #13 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 3:55pm » |
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... just verifying... by [heater] do you mean the fanmotor of airco/heating system?
Do you have a SATC "automatic climate control" airco/heater with the two temp "eyes" displays?
OR do you mean the heated windows front & back?
Just making sure -
Ray
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oz-World
Newbie
Posts: 29
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #14 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 4:10pm » |
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SATC - will look to get a new CC Panel Tom, will let you guys know.
Cheers for your help
Martyn
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Cosray
Full Member
8th Scorpio, 2nd Cosworth: currently '95
Posts: 569
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #15 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 5:34pm » |
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Martyn... be aware it is really three units: the easily detachable userpanel and the controlbox behind it, rather awkward to come by AND a vulnerable HBC - heatre blower control unit IN the fanbox.
The latter comes in a short and (improved) long coolingfin version. The short one is often defect and can be replaced turning two screws.
Why suspect any of them?
The fanmotor is pulse-width driven from the hard-to-come-by controlbox.
Does it correctly and in a linear way respond to the turning of the speedsetting control - when NOT in AUTO?
Apart from your battery drain Does the unit behave functionally OK?
Do the "eyes" flash numbers like "03" or "07"?
Does the unit respond to TEMP settings? Left and Right?
E.g. at cold start, when you turn the vent settings to "Defrost" does it immediately start, rather than wait for a hot engine?
If at night, with usual drivinglights on, you turn the fanspeedsetting to FULL do your lights visibly dim?
Curious
Ray
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
Posts: 8244
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #16 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 6:15pm » |
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on Jan 11th, 2011, 5:34pm, Cosray wrote:Does it correctly and in a linear way respond to the turning of the speedsetting control - when NOT in AUTO?
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That was what mine did Ray, turning the dial made the fan/cc unit turn on and off, like a loose connection somewhere, it worked ok on auto
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:| I give up ! Too much for an old boy! |
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Cosray
Full Member
8th Scorpio, 2nd Cosworth: currently '95
Posts: 569
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #17 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 6:46pm » |
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Highlkander - that particular effect is caused by corroded potentiometers. In fact in the userpanel there is one for each dial. Proof of that observation is the AUTO function working well.
The manual speedsettings will increase the dutycycle for the motor; the second for the flaps and doors operates exactly as your auto-gear-lever: providing a variable resistance value to be interpreted by and corresponding with by the controlbox for the respective doorpositions.
(A ridiculously complex and vulnerable design to save 4 wires in a 10" flatcable. Siemens way back in 1993 or so must have laughed their head off)
Detach the panel, spray the slidercontacts and they will function like new. While at it replace all bulbs!
Apparently our friend experiences a high current consumption from the fanmotor which really can only be attributed to a bad fanmotor and/or HBC.
So important is to establish whether lights go dim when the fanmotor is running slow or fast.
That will provide a clue to the high current consumption, bleeding the battery.
Also: does the fanmotor not jam or partly blocked? Both infamous sludged drainholes opened to allow water to leave the box?
Another measurement in order to eliminate all other causes MUST be the AMPS going into the battery and into the system.
There should alwyas be a surplus of at least 10%. Even new batteries, even when the applied voltage nears 14V, may have a excessive high internal resistance refusing sufficient chargecurrent.
It is either too high a current from a user or insufficient current into the battery.
HTH
Ray
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oz-World
Newbie
Posts: 29
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #18 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 7:53pm » |
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Does it correctly and in a linear way respond to the turning of the speedsetting control - when NOT in AUTO?
YES!
YES!
YES!
YES!
YES!
YES!
YES!
YES!
YES!
YES!
YES!
YES!
YES!
YES!
Apart from your battery drain Does the unit behave functionally OK?
YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!
Do the "eyes" flash numbers like "03" or "07"?
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
Does the unit respond to TEMP settings? Left and Right?
YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!
If at night, with usual drivinglights on, you turn the fanspeedsetting to FULL do your lights visibly dim?
WHEN ON FULL THE VISIBLY LIGHTS DIM, WHEN THE HEATER IS ON FULL WHEN ON FULL THE VISIBLY LIGHTS DIM, WHEN THE HEATER IS ON FULL WHEN ON FULL THE VISIBLY LIGHTS DIM, WHEN THE HEATER IS ON FULL WHEN ON FULL THE VISIBLY LIGHTS DIM, WHEN THE HEATER IS ON FULL WHEN ON FULL THE VISIBLY LIGHTS DIM, WHEN THE HEATER IS ON FULL WHEN ON FULL THE VISIBLY LIGHTS DIM, WHEN THE HEATER IS ON FULL WHEN ON FULL THE VISIBLY LIGHTS DIM, WHEN THE HEATER IS ON FULL WHEN ON FULL THE VISIBLY LIGHTS DIM, WHEN THE HEATER IS ON FULL WHEN ON FULL THE VISIBLY LIGHTS DIM, WHEN THE HEATER IS ON FULL WHEN ON FULL THE VISIBLY LIGHTS DIM, WHEN THE HEATER IS ON FULL WHEN ON FULL THE VISIBLY LIGHTS DIM, WHEN THE HEATER IS ON FULL WHEN ON FULL THE VISIBLY LIGHTS DIM, WHEN THE HEATER IS ON FULL WHEN ON FULL THE VISIBLY LIGHTS DIM, WHEN THE HEATER IS ON FULL WHEN ON FULL THE VISIBLY LIGHTS DIM, WHEN THE HEATER IS ON FULL
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Cosray
Full Member
8th Scorpio, 2nd Cosworth: currently '95
Posts: 569
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Re: Battery Draining
« Reply #19 on: Jan 11th, 2011, 8:08pm » |
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... well oz... only thing I can think of is either jamming or drainwater or bad lubrication of the fanmotor causing excessive current... when functioning does it really blow hard or just sighs?
OR
an excessively high internal resistance of battery and/or leads towards it (red cables, nuts, bolts, clamps) or from it (black cables and grounding, nuts, washers, bolts)
Reminds me I had a rusty old Peugeot once with a similar problem. Turned out two parts of the chassisparts had torn and separated, causing a high groundresistance between battery and alternator!
Either way the balance between chargecurrent going into the battery and current going down the system is diturbed.
Now I am an electronics engineer and would always measure currents first to either point to or eliminate causes and circuits.
If you do not have an appropriate meter you might say borrow one or have a garage do these three tests in rder to be certain. Can that be done?
HTH
Ray
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