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Topic: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on (Read 2507 times) |
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mondeoman
Full Member
2.9 24V Cosworth Ultima + 2.3 16V Facelift Ultima
Posts: 376
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No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« on: Jan 14th, 2011, 1:29pm » |
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Hi,
I've got an ABS and Traction Control problem on my wife's 2.3 Facelift Ultima.
The ABS light does not come on which suggests no power to the system? The Traction control light comes on and will not go our even if I press the TCS button. I assume the problem is linked as both systems share a lot of the same components? The airbag light does come and go out, so no problems with that!
I have done the simple things and checked the following fuses:
Central Fuse Box
16, 17 Electronics
27 Airbag, ABS
Auxiliary Fuse Box
46,47 ABS Module
Any suggestions/ideas?
Cheers,
Simon
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Highlander
Moderator
Expert
13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
Posts: 8244
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Re: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« Reply #1 on: Jan 14th, 2011, 1:37pm » |
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Traction control on a 2.3? quite a rare option that one.
ABS bulb/LED blown? instrument cluster wiring/connector?
TCS light suggests a problem at the rear wheels, connectors ok below the back seats?
maybe dirty sensors?
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy!  |
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mondeoman
Full Member
2.9 24V Cosworth Ultima + 2.3 16V Facelift Ultima
Posts: 376
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Re: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« Reply #2 on: Jan 14th, 2011, 1:40pm » |
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It's a facelift 2.3 so I think they must have thrown everything in to help sell the car.
Where is the ABS module and wires in the engine bay? Would that all be worth checking also?
Are the wires exposed if I lift the back seat bottom up etc?
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mondeoman
Full Member
2.9 24V Cosworth Ultima + 2.3 16V Facelift Ultima
Posts: 376
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Re: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« Reply #3 on: Jan 14th, 2011, 5:48pm » |
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All the diagnostic guides i've found on ABS don't mention what to check if light never comes on!
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Matt
Senior Member
Manual'd and a 4.0 in the making
Posts: 2816
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Re: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« Reply #4 on: Jan 14th, 2011, 6:03pm » |
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a traction control only light could be linked with a gearbox problem, i found that when sorting the electrics for my manual conversion, the S E and ice buttons caused some of the agro i had
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FDS2000 Scans - Birmingham
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« Reply #5 on: Jan 14th, 2011, 6:14pm » |
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Faulty fuses 46 & 47 will cause the light to stay on so shouldn't be those.
I think faulty fuse 27 will result in no light but since your Air bag light functions correctly it probably isn’t that.
Have you tested if the ABS works? – might be the LED/instrument cluster connection if ABS still works.
A possible test of the LED is to disconnect the multiplug on the ABS controller the LED should then be earthed via a switch in the multiplug & stay on.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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mondeoman
Full Member
2.9 24V Cosworth Ultima + 2.3 16V Facelift Ultima
Posts: 376
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Re: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« Reply #6 on: Jan 15th, 2011, 7:47am » |
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Ok I'll try to disconnect the multiplug and see if the light comes on the display etc.
Could this problem be a broken ABS controller?
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mondeoman
Full Member
2.9 24V Cosworth Ultima + 2.3 16V Facelift Ultima
Posts: 376
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Re: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« Reply #7 on: Jan 15th, 2011, 9:42am » |
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Tompion,
I've disconnected the multiplug and turned on the ignition and the ABS light comes on, but the TCS light doesn't come on. When reconnected the ABS light doesn't come on at all and the TCS light comes on and will not go out!
Well I guess that eliminates the dash light from the problem.
Does this now point to a failed ABS controller?
Cheers,
Simon
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« Reply #8 on: Jan 15th, 2011, 12:07pm » |
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It doesn't indicate the motor pin failure since that causes the light to stay on, although it could be one of the other pins in the controller or indeed a different type of controller failure.
If the rain holds off I’ll test for sure what happens when I remove fuse 27 since if the light doesn’t work that could indicate an earth or feed fault.
Which type of ABS do you have, did the multiplug bolt on like this one?
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« Reply #9 on: Jan 15th, 2011, 2:18pm » |
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I was wrong about fuse 27, the light does come on with it removed.
Afraid I don't know much about TC & how it interacts with the ABS.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Cosray
Full Member
8th Scorpio, 2nd Cosworth: currently '95
Posts: 569
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Re: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« Reply #10 on: Jan 15th, 2011, 5:27pm » |
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on Jan 15th, 2011, 2:18pm, Tompion wrote:I was wrong about fuse 27, the light does come on with it removed.
Afraid I don't know much about TC & how it interacts with the ABS. |
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Hi must read this excellent piece & the other buttons on the page!
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/abssystem.htm
Ray
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mondeoman
Full Member
2.9 24V Cosworth Ultima + 2.3 16V Facelift Ultima
Posts: 376
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Re: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« Reply #11 on: Jan 15th, 2011, 6:08pm » |
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The ABS module is from a Facelift 2.3 Ultima, so I would assume it is the later version. There is a bolt in the middle of the connector.
It is odd that the light doesn't come on and therefore doesn't conduct the self check on start up.
I've found no information anywhere so far to say under what circumstances this can occur. I do wonder if the ABS problem is resolved then the TCS will also disappear.
Would it be logical to suggest that the connector into the module must be fully home i.e no gap, if the light doesn't come on?
What happens if the ABS module fails, does that produce a light? It won't conduct a self check if it is broken?
Could it be power to the module itself?
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« Reply #12 on: Jan 15th, 2011, 6:11pm » |
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What I meant was I don't have TC therefore have no direct experience.
Trouble is the pages don't seem to address his problem - ABS light not coming on.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« Reply #13 on: Jan 15th, 2011, 6:36pm » |
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on Jan 15th, 2011, 6:08pm, mondeoman wrote:The ABS module is from a Facelift 2.3 Ultima, so I would assume it is the later version. There is a bolt in the middle of the connector.
It is odd that the light doesn't come on and therefore doesn't conduct the self check on start up.
I've found no information anywhere so far to say under what circumstances this can occur. I do wonder if the ABS problem is resolved then the TCS will also disappear.
Would it be logical to suggest that the connector into the module must be fully home i.e no gap, if the light doesn't come on?
What happens if the ABS module fails, does that produce a light? It won't conduct a self check if it is broken?
Could it be power to the module itself?
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If it has the bolt it is the earlier type – there has been speculation that the later type weren’t available/used with TC since quite late cars fitted with TC have the earlier system fitted.
Power to the module is fuse 27 which on mine caused the light to come on when removed but you could try pulling it on yours to see what happens since you have a different controller to mine.
Other fuses are mentioned in the wiring diagrams for ABS with TC but I don’t know how significant they are. They all have other functions so you would probably know if they had blown.
F14 also tail lights, indicators, brake lights
F16 electronics - pulling this stopped all dash lights working & car won’t start.
F19 Headlamp washer (think this is just used for power on the diagnostics)
F37 engine management
F45 Hazard flasher
Yes depending on the module failure you could have the light not coming on, possibly the solder joint on one of the other pins in the controller at fault.
Yes I’d imagine the plug is fully home, I just used a picture I had to hand the bit about the gap wasn’t really to do with your problem.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« Reply #14 on: Jan 15th, 2011, 7:07pm » |
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You could test power and earths in conjunction with the plug layout (click on the MK IV link at the bottom of my posts), although I doubt it will be your problem.
I don’t have the full TC pinout, but these non TC ones are also valid for the TC version.
Note: take care with pins 1 & 2 as they are permanently live.
MK 4 ABS connector (without traction)
1 Fuse 47
2 Fuse 46
5 Sensor FL WH
6 Sensor FL BN
7 Sensor FR WH/RD
8 Sensor FR BN/RD
9 Sensor RL WH/BU
10 Sensor RL BN/BU
11 Sensor RR WH/GN
12 Sensor RR BN/GN
13 Earth BK
14 Earth BK
15 Fuse 27
20 Brake Light VT/YE
21 BK/RD (warning light)
22 Earth BK (or BK/YE)
28 Diagnostics WH/BU
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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mondeoman
Full Member
2.9 24V Cosworth Ultima + 2.3 16V Facelift Ultima
Posts: 376
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Re: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« Reply #15 on: Jan 16th, 2011, 1:00pm » |
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I'm pleased to say the problem has been resolved and it was caused by four wires being damaged and touching etc. It must have been caused by heat, or some chemical eating at the plastic cover etc.
Wires 6 and 7 appeared to be touching and 21 and 20 which i suspect caused the light on the dash not to work?
I have wrapped some electricians tape all around the wires now to help protect them from anything like this happening again.
When I drove the car around the block the ABS and TCS lights then went out.
What sort of things can damage electrical insulation?
So thanks everyone for helping me solve the problem.
Simon
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Simmo
Administrator
I'm an OAP !
Posts: 5508
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Re: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« Reply #16 on: Jan 16th, 2011, 1:09pm » |
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To some extent it is simply age. Heat is another factor and things such as steering fluid/anti freeze leaking on the loom can exacerbate the situation. Good to know that you have cured the problem. 
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Now I'm an OAP
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Cosray
Full Member
8th Scorpio, 2nd Cosworth: currently '95
Posts: 569
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Re: No ABS LIght and TCS Light on
« Reply #17 on: Jan 16th, 2011, 1:11pm » |
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on Jan 16th, 2011, 1:00pm, mondeoman wrote:I'm pleased to say the problem has been resolved and it was caused by four wires being damaged and touching etc. It must have been caused by heat, or some chemical eating at the plastic cover etc.
Wires 6 and 7 appeared to be touching and 21 and 20 which i suspect caused the light on the dash not to work?
I have wrapped some electricians tape all around the wires now to help protect them from anything like this happening again.
When I drove the car around the block the ABS and TCS lights then went out.
What sort of things can damage electrical insulation?
Simon |
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What sort of things can damage electrical insulation?
Age, oil, moist, heat and stupid and careless techies who spill coolant all over the place...
Mind you the youngest looms are now 13 years old... and their isolation gets brittle, cracks, falls down and especially in horizontal loom strectches the strands will touch.
Most will NOt cause shorts and blow fuses but instead invoke all kinds of unpredictabale and weird gremlins causing all sorts of strange phenomena...
Have a look at these pics...
http://picasaweb.google.com/babpic123/Aegon?authkey=Gv1sRgCNmu4LaW36q0hA E&feat=directlink
Here's a similar case SOLVED: http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action= display;num=1295035527
HTH
Ray
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