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Topic: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed (Read 17101 times) |
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Pianoman
Full Member
24v Ultima Saloon & 2.0 16v Ultima Estate
 
Posts: 246
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Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« on: Apr 9th, 2011, 12:31pm » |
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I lent my 24v to my mate while I was away; while he was driving it cut out and would not start.
When he tried to re-start the engine would turn over then die. He called the AA and the AA man said it was an air intake problem but could not fix it; he then adjusted something so more air/fuel got through; this allowed my friend to get home.
I now have the car back and its running at about 2000 rpm higher than it should (fuel consumption reads 5 mpg eek) and its dog rough. My mate does not know what the AA man adjusted and I need to get it back to what it should be to sort the initial problem.
Can anyone advised me what I need to adjust to undo what the AA man did, I am guessing its something to do with the Idle control valve/Idle screw or throttle cable.
Thanks
Tony
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Pianoman
Full Member
24v Ultima Saloon & 2.0 16v Ultima Estate
Posts: 246
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #1 on: Apr 9th, 2011, 3:16pm » |
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Ok I think I found it
I could see the shiny part of the thread where he has moved it
Thanks
Tony
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Matt
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Manual'd and a 4.0 in the making
Posts: 2816
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #2 on: Apr 9th, 2011, 4:32pm » |
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HI Tony
Id say hes moved that screw so just wind it back till the idle is about 800
as for the air leak i could be the plastic T piece under the intake has snapped off, can you hearing it sucking air?
Best sort the idle out though as it will be putting the auto box under excessive strain
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FDS2000 Scans - Birmingham
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Pianoman
Full Member
24v Ultima Saloon & 2.0 16v Ultima Estate
Posts: 246
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #3 on: Apr 11th, 2011, 7:09pm » |
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Hi Matt
Got the idle speed back to around 800.
car is ok untill engine gets hot (driven about 3 miles( then cuts out, will only start by pressing the gas pedal, it then cuts out.
Not sure I can see the t-piece clearly, but cant hear it sucking in air.
cleaned the maf and IACV valve and no change. will do an odb2 scan next.
thanks
Tony
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Matt
Senior Member
Manual'd and a 4.0 in the making
Posts: 2816
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #4 on: Apr 11th, 2011, 7:49pm » |
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Hiya
Id try and sort the air leak first,
Do you have a hiss when you open the filler cap or when you turn it off?
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FDS2000 Scans - Birmingham
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #5 on: Apr 11th, 2011, 9:58pm » |
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If you’re using the Alex Pepper lead you’ll find on the enhanced page the desired RPM & the actual RPM – this will be higher with a cold engine. I would imagine you’ll find a range where the screw has little effect (because you’ll be within the range of the IAC which will be trying to correct the actual RPM to the desired RPM).
I would have thought you should be able to see a witness mark/line of carbon where the butterfly had been originally, but as Matt said you need to find the leak first – assuming there is one.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Mike H
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Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #6 on: Apr 12th, 2011, 12:05pm » |
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See here about 24V vacuum pipes & 'T' pieces:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/vacuumpipesg.htm
There are lots of them! I'd check them ALL over if I were you, quite a bit can go wrong there 
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Mike H
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Highlander
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Expert
13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #7 on: Apr 12th, 2011, 3:14pm » |
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Hi Tony,
symptoms would suggest fuel pressure regulator?
The AA, RAC etc dont appear to be the great car guru's they used to be, I hear a lot of stories of wrong diagnosis now.
Maybe as cars get more complicated it gets harder to make a good diagnosis but they probably just aren't allowed the time to do it anymore..
So don't take the AA diagnosis as gospel..
If you spray easy start or WD40 round the vaccum pipes and manifold seals while its running an air leak should show by changing the engine note.
Check the air and coolant temperature readings are all ok.
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy!  |
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Pianoman
Full Member
24v Ultima Saloon & 2.0 16v Ultima Estate
Posts: 246
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #8 on: Apr 12th, 2011, 5:37pm » |
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Thanks everyone, I need to charge the battery then I will check all the vacuum pipes as advised.
I am not sure there is an air leak, The AA man said he could not find any leak and according to my friend he did spend some time checking. Would a leak cause the car to cut out when hot?
Looking on the fault finder on the main site, it does appear to look like a fuel pressure regulator as Stuart says.
I did an ODB scan and at cold start up and got the following
Then when the engine got hot it gave the following readings just before it cut out.
I also get the following error codes referring to the lambda sensors, although I did get these codes before the car stared cutting out.
P0131 Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor circuit out of range - Bank No. 1.
P0151 Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor circuit out of range - Bank No. 2.
In the Status Menu I also get
Oxygen Sensor: No
Oxygen Sensor Heater: No
Exhaust Gas Recirculation: NO
Many Thanks
Tony
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Pegasus
Full Member
24V Cosworth Ultima Born: Sept 97, sold Aug 23
Posts: 741
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #9 on: Apr 12th, 2011, 9:08pm » |
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Hi Tony,
it might be the FPR. I had a similar problem (though not as bad as yours). Mine occasionally cut out when restarting with a hot engine after a few seconds then no problem - just embarrassing having an auto stall
My scans showed LONGFTs arounds -10 to -12%. So changed the FPR.
Seemed ok for a while but it still occasionally stalls (though less frequently) and LONGFTs show -7 to -9% at idle. Everything else working as it should and never generated a code (LONGFTs have to get to around +/- 25% I think). Haven't bothered (yet) to get to the bottom of cause - might have another look this summer
Anyway, if you feel the need to have a go at changing the FPR there's a method on the site that I've adapted. It'll take about an hour and cost about £50 from FPUK. I've documented my method (with pics) so if you want, pm me your email address and I'll send it to you.
Paul
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Pianoman
Full Member
24v Ultima Saloon & 2.0 16v Ultima Estate
Posts: 246
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #10 on: Apr 13th, 2011, 1:24pm » |
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Hi Paul 
PM sent
FPUK dont have the fuel pressure regulator for a scorpio, however the guy said if I give him the part number he may have a better idea, can anyone help with the part no?
Many thanks
Tony
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #11 on: Apr 13th, 2011, 7:13pm » |
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hi there
i'd run a scan on your pre cat lambda sensors (both cold and hot engine) as your figures suggest the engine is running rich.
btw, you say you're charging the battery. was the scan done before a flat battery?
anyway, part number is 7334684.
hth
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Pianoman
Full Member
24v Ultima Saloon & 2.0 16v Ultima Estate
Posts: 246
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #12 on: Apr 14th, 2011, 7:49pm » |
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Hi Scorpio Man, thanks for the part number.
When I did then scan the battery appeared ok although the car has hardly been run as I have been away for 2 weeks. It was the day after the scan I had problem’s starting it.
I don’t think I can do a pre cat lambda scan as I think the error codes are saying they are not working or not connected, I did get these error codes before the cut out problem. I will see if I can scan the pre cat lambda sensors tomorrow and if I can’t, I may consider renewing the lambda sensors before getting a new FPR.
Thanks
Tony
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #13 on: Apr 14th, 2011, 8:41pm » |
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hi there
your lambdas are working to some extent.
the car needs to be running for about 180 seconds to get 'true' readings from them.
see how you get on.
hth
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Pianoman
Full Member
24v Ultima Saloon & 2.0 16v Ultima Estate
Posts: 246
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #14 on: Apr 16th, 2011, 8:08pm » |
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Hi Scorpio man
here is my latest scan, I am not sure I am doing it correct as most of the 02 options give me error connecting
readings just after start up
reading just before the car started to cut out
Any help as to whats going on would be appreciated
Tony
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #15 on: Apr 17th, 2011, 9:13am » |
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hi there
if you zip the 3 parts of the file together and email them to me, i'll have a look at it.
you need to scan the following......
RPM
MAF
LTFT
BOTH front LAMBDA SENSORS
run these for 5 mins at idle (a/c OFF). every minute, blip the throttle to 2k rpm. end this scan(acts as chapters as in a book).
then do another scan, switching on and off various temp sensors. also check the tps with the engine off (ignition on). should be from 16% to 92% ish.
try not to drive it on the scan.
oh, check the box with auto re-connect under the GATEWAY, PROTOCOL tabs. that way it should continue to scan even if you need to re-start the engine.
save the scans and send them to me (3 different file names.... file1, file2, etc).
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/easyguide.htm
also this...... http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/obdfaq.htm
forget the any board bit now..
hth
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Pianoman
Full Member
24v Ultima Saloon & 2.0 16v Ultima Estate
Posts: 246
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #16 on: Apr 17th, 2011, 12:31pm » |
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Thanks Scorpio Man
I will send you the info, could you please tell me what part of the program I use to scan both from o2 sensors, ther are so many 02 options.
Thanks in advance
Tony
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #17 on: Apr 17th, 2011, 1:32pm » |
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hi there
o2s11 & o2s21 are the front lambda sensors. see your photo above where you scanned the o2s11 sensor.
hth
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Pianoman
Full Member
24v Ultima Saloon & 2.0 16v Ultima Estate
Posts: 246
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #18 on: Apr 17th, 2011, 11:05pm » |
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Thanks Scorpio_man
email sent
Tony
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scorpio_man
Administrator
Ford Kuga awd
Posts: 5654
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #19 on: Apr 18th, 2011, 6:07pm » |
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hi there
i had a look at the scans and they look fine.
the fuelling wont be accurate as the battery went flat, so the ecu will be re-learning the values again.
it does point to the fuel pressure regulator, but make sure there's no air leaks, etc.
hth
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