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Topic: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed (Read 17107 times) |
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howiedintheplace
Senior Member
Based near Evesham
 
Posts: 1194
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #60 on: Jul 15th, 2011, 11:18am » |
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Hi
I have not had time to read all that lot but heres my input.
The car had a idle problem to start with so the AA guy just forced the car to idle higher above the problem area to get you home.
So that most likely points to the below.
Air leak
Idle Valve
Fuel pressure
Lambda's
Possible wiring fault
Cutting out when hot after screw adjusted back
Air leak
Fuel Pressure
Lambda's
Plug or ignition problem
Now won't start up at all
Fuel Pressure
Air Leak
Plug or ignition problem
So look at the last 3.
You say you have checked for leaks so cross of air leaks
Fuel pressure.
First can you hear the pump running at any time?
Remove the petrol cap is there any pressure release to show the tank is not breathing.
You will see a tyre valve on one of the petrol pipes that go to the engine.
Straight after you try starting it just push the valve in to see if any petrol pressure is there.
Or better still get a gauge to measure it correctly should be about 2.5 - 3 bar at idle.
If everything checks out O.K look for dodgy wiring or an ignition fault.
Pretty unlikely the alternator will make any difference mate or the fuse box.
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Dave
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #61 on: Jul 15th, 2011, 3:42pm » |
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on Jun 29th, 2011, 1:10am, Pianoman wrote:When I fully charge the battery it only lasts 2 days so either its duff or something is draining it.
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Check glovebox light or boot light are not permanently on. I've took both bulbs out of mine to make sure; I found the glovebox bulb burnt out and remembered my neighbour who had it before me said it kept going flat for a while, then "mysteriously stopped doing it", i.e. the bulb finally expired I presume 
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Mike H
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #62 on: Jul 15th, 2011, 3:53pm » |
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This has been going on a long time now! Since April?
Gone back to the beginning and things that were suggested but been no come-back about, are:
Spark plugs / ignition OK ~ have you looked at the plugs? Could have humungous spark gaps about as useful as a chocolate teapot....
Damaged coils, HT arcing where it shouldn't?
Vacuum tubes ~ despite various "in situ" testing suggestions I'd have the whole lot off and scrutinize under a magnifying glass if necessary..... I've had it happen where something is wearing it through 'cause it's rubbing on something but of course you miss it because it's completely hidden. Split ends, but can't see the split, had all of that....
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Mike H
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #63 on: Jul 15th, 2011, 4:00pm » |
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on Jul 15th, 2011, 11:18am, howiedintheplace wrote:Fuel pressure.
First can you hear the pump running at any time?
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Yes leave the driver's door open and turn ign to position 2, should easily hear the fuel pump start up (?)
Also as previously mentioned, fuel tank should have a slight vacuum in it so air hisses in when fuel cap is undone. Although suspect only after car has been running a bit, which this, er, can't....
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Mike H
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howiedintheplace
Senior Member
Based near Evesham
Posts: 1194
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #64 on: Jul 15th, 2011, 5:40pm » |
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Yes the EVAP will pull a slight vacuum but if it's not working right it will create the symptoms as you describe.
If you think there is excessive vac replace the cap with an emergency one for testing.
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Dave
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #65 on: Jul 16th, 2011, 12:06pm » |
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So could be no more than a dodgy filler cap? 
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Mike H
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howiedintheplace
Senior Member
Based near Evesham
Posts: 1194
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #66 on: Jul 17th, 2011, 10:03am » |
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It's worth checking but it's pretty unlikley as if the car is left it should be O.K again until it's run for a few minutes then the problem should return so don't fit the current problem.
To answer your PM Pianoman the valve for testing the fuel pressure is on one of the fuel pipes that travels across the passenger rocker cover, trace them back & around the engine mount area you will see one pipe has a valve.
As for testing remember that pipe should have petrol under pressure so don't take any chances.
The valve can screw out just like a tyre one & you need a gauge of course!
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Dave
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #67 on: Jul 17th, 2011, 12:27pm » |
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on Jul 15th, 2011, 11:18am, howiedintheplace wrote:Now won't start up at all
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Just occurred to me that that might be because it's got so "clagged up" now from all the previous attempts (?)
Still worth looking at the plugs (going back to basics), e.g. if completely caked with soot that's a clue, conversely if completely dry and no smell of fuel on them that's another clue (?)
Just a thought
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Mike H
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Pianoman
Full Member
24v Ultima Saloon & 2.0 16v Ultima Estate
Posts: 246
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #68 on: Jul 17th, 2011, 3:27pm » |
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@ Dave & Mike, thank for your input
I will go through all your suggestions and report back.
Whre can I buy this gauge? are they all standard ?
Thanks
Tony
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leewar
Senior Member
I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 1504
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #69 on: Jul 17th, 2011, 4:17pm » |
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Tony, before buying a gauge, remove the protection cap and push the valve in and see if any fuel comes out. Lee
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Pianoman
Full Member
24v Ultima Saloon & 2.0 16v Ultima Estate
Posts: 246
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #70 on: Jul 18th, 2011, 6:57pm » |
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Weather has been awful here but managed to try the following today.
Replaced Fuses F16 and 17 in main fuse box.
Replaced Fuses 31,34,37 and 42 in aux fuse box
Replaced relay R17 and 19 in aux fuse box.
Checked vacuum T pieces and they were all connected and looked ok although I could only raise the plenum centre section slightly, is there a method to remove this without removing the plenum side section?
The fuel pump sounds like its working.
When I release the fuel cap these is a very big hiss.
Pressed the fuel valve in and fuel slowly trickled out, is this what it’s supposed to do or should there be pressure?
Will remove the plugs later is the rain stay off.
Many thanks
Tony
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #71 on: Jul 18th, 2011, 9:15pm » |
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If the fuel cap were the problem then you’ll only need to leave it undone for the engine to run.
You won’t get much fuel coming out of the valve if it’s only primed (pump runs briefly at ignition on then stops unless engine fires).
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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pedropedro
Full Member
Posts: 677
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #72 on: Jul 26th, 2011, 8:37am » |
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sounds like my problem..see my thread "HELP engine just dies"
Was wiring between edis and ecu; all wires were rotten cant believe mine was a one off. Relatively easy to fix, needs some good wire and some skill with soldering iron/heatshrink etc ..arc euro trade supply good cable, search "screened cable" part # 165-040-00100
you can prove the fault by bending the short loom immediately after the edis plug; will cause engine to start/stop if its at fault; suspect it is from your desription
lift up header tank (remove x2 10mm nuts), remove edis plug, cut the red/white+black/ white+purple/ white wires at edis 3" back from edis plug run cable to ecu plug where do same thing and solder screen
Ive checked wiring for engine control 2.9 24v & is identical to the 2.3 engine that I have re the edis / ecu hook up its page 2
good luck maybe your fault is different to mine but sounds similar ...john
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Dave2302
Senior Member
2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #73 on: Jul 26th, 2011, 10:18am » |
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on Jul 18th, 2011, 9:15pm, Tompion wrote:If the fuel cap were the problem then you’ll only need to leave it undone for the engine to run.
You won’t get much fuel coming out of the valve if it’s only primed (pump runs briefly at ignition on then stops unless engine fires).
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Agreed re cap.........
However, if you cycle the ignition so the pump has run, you should get a squirt of petrol initially when you press the valve in, as there should be about 2 bar pressure in the line at this stage.
Can't beleive no one has suggested Fuel Filter as this problem has got steadily worse 
When was that last changed ??
Have a look physically as I have known garages to charge for them on service but not change it as it can be a bit of an arse if not done recently
It is sounding like lack of fuel to me, so start with the basics, stick 12V on the pump and see if you get a good flow of fuel from the test valve
HTH Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #74 on: Jul 26th, 2011, 1:21pm » |
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The amount of petrol held in the pipe work etc is relatively small so the quantity of petrol will be small even at 2 bar - just what’s compressed into the flexible hoses, assuming there’s not a lot of air in the system.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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pedropedro
Full Member
Posts: 677
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #75 on: Jul 26th, 2011, 2:23pm » |
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fuel pump is a high quality product and unlikely to fail.....2 bar doesnt produce much fuel at valve...and ecu is turning pump off if engine doesnt fire....easy to check pump but only if its disconnected from line as non stop fuel to injectors may harm cat.
if pump runs for 3-4 secs and doesnt fire may be wiring issue ..i spent x3 days dropping tank replacing filter undoing cap etc etc until i got my head into what was going on
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #76 on: Jul 26th, 2011, 4:59pm » |
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on Jul 26th, 2011, 10:18am, Dave2302 wrote:
Can't beleive no one has suggested Fuel Filter as this problem has got steadily worse
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I could've done that
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Mike H
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Dave2302
Senior Member
2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #77 on: Jul 27th, 2011, 10:57am » |
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on Jul 26th, 2011, 4:59pm, Mike H wrote:
I could've done that
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LOL Must have missed that
And sorry chaps, will have to disagree re the fuel test point, go try it on a good runing car.............
The OP says he only got a dribble of fuel, upon first pressing in the schrader valve there should have been a squirt, gradually dying down to a trickle over a second or 2 without the pump running................
If not then there is a fuel pressure problem................
Of Course a proper test gauge will be a far more accurate way to test
Cheers Dave
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #78 on: Jul 27th, 2011, 12:42pm » |
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I wouldn't have posted if I hadn't tried it on my car previously &
"You won’t get much fuel coming out of the valve if it’s only primed" is based on that.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Mike H
Senior Member
Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: Help AA Man’s tampered with my idle speed
« Reply #79 on: Jul 27th, 2011, 7:15pm » |
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on Jul 27th, 2011, 10:57am, Dave2302 wrote:
LOL Must have missed that
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I didn't think I had mentioned it actually, so at that precise moment what I meant was that I could have thought of it earlier. It turns out however that after all I did mention it, in April
This is still the same original prob that the AA man tweaked it for isn't it?
Quote:| When I tried it yesterday it turned over immediately but the idle was very erratic, it cut out several times and lasted about 5 mins before it cut out and would not restart without immediately dying |
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All of a sudden this is sounding like pedropedro's problem, "rotten" screened lead between EDIS and ECU (?)
Guess a fast idle would help keep it going if it was misfiring provided not too seriously, but now it is serious
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Mike H
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