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Topic: engine and auto box problems (Read 2876 times) |
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Andycan
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engine and auto box problems
« on: May 8th, 2011, 3:45pm » |
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Hi again. Having just bought my scorpio 2.0 16 v I have concentrated on getting it through the test ( Wednesday) but today I checked all the oil levels and water levels as I was going out. She started up ok and had a nice tickover but didn't want to go into gear for about 10 seconds and then thumped in. Got to the end of the road and on pulling out the gears were seeming to slip until they thumped in again.
this kept happening for a few miles when the engine started to seem to loose power and it seemed to be firing on 2 or 3 cylinders for a mile or so. Could I have disturbed anything? Or any ideas what or why these things all happened at once?
Oh just another small thing the cruise control doesn't seem to be working at the moment but I can't find a fuse or relay for it so again any ideas?
Thanks Andy
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leewar
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #1 on: May 8th, 2011, 6:06pm » |
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Andy, take out the gearbox dipstick and smell the fluid and check it's colour. If it smells burnt and is a dark brown colour, the fluid and filter will need changing as soon as possible or we are talking about a gearbox exchange. It should only take around two seconds for the gear to engage and not thump in. Lee
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Simmo
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #2 on: May 9th, 2011, 8:40am » |
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Check out This page Scroll down to Transmission. Have you checked out the level of the gearbox oil?. There is a proper procedure for this and it has to be done with the engine running?.
The relay for the Cruise Control- (Speed control System) is R 17,coloured green and is in the 'flap' in the roof of the glovebox. The first thing to check is that the cable is attached to the throttle linkage. It is only a push on 'banjo' fitting and can get dislodged. The cable runs to the motor alongside the FOS headlight. 
According to the Wiring Diagrams,supplied by Snoopy, the chart shows that fuse 37 in the Auxillary Fusebox, is that which covers the Speed Control System. The Handbook shows it as Engine Management System so it is unlikely to be the cause if the car runs ok.
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Andycan
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #3 on: May 9th, 2011, 10:17am » |
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Thanks for the info I get lost looking for it.
I want to do a major service on it so can anyone tell me where the gearbox filter is please? And the filler and drain holes are Thanks
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Simmo
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #4 on: May 9th, 2011, 10:22am » |
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Andy. Have a look at This page and select the appropriate page(s). That came up as a result of a search for 'Auto box'. Click on the Ford Scorpio banner at the top of any page. That will take you to the 'Home' page. Scroll to the bottom and insert whatever in the box at the bottom. There are also the 'buttons' on the left which bring up things like the 'Fault Finder'. HTH. 
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Andycan
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #5 on: May 9th, 2011, 11:13am » |
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Update there is no green relay only a yellow one and a slot for another one in the glove box. The gearbox oil is slightly brownand has a very slight smell of burning. I am having to do this whilst babysitting a 2 year old and a 6 month old all day for the next few days so it may take some time.
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Mike H
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Renault Clio
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #6 on: May 9th, 2011, 1:21pm » |
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As you've only just acquired the car (I think that's right?) check everything and renew where necessary. This includes oils, coolant etc., also all filters, MAF etc.
The MAF plays a quite profound part in autobox behaviour (as I found out  ) 'cause it's the PCM that actually changes gears, that means it needs to be given accurate sensor readings
NB: handbook says on first selecting a gear with the lever shouldn't take longer than 4 seconds to engage
HTH
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Mike H
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Simmo
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #7 on: May 9th, 2011, 2:58pm » |
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A good start, and a quick job whilst the little ones are snoozing....hopefully...is to Clean the MAF with carb cleaner. As Mike says it is a major player.
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Stixy
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #8 on: May 9th, 2011, 4:24pm » |
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Is it still doing it ? or is it every now and then ?
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Andycan
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #9 on: May 9th, 2011, 5:26pm » |
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It has been doing it for the past 2 days but I have cleaned the maff sensor now and have a new air filter on order which will arrive tomorrow so I will try it out then.
I have looked at the gearbox diagrams but still can't see where you refill it with oil but I do need new glasses lol.
I was amased that it needs 10 litres of gearbox oil and my local stockist only sells the correct oil for the scorpio in 1 litre bottles at £8 a litre and has to order it as they only hold 2 litres at a time.
Will keep you all posted as I am bound to get stuck as the scorpio is so different to all the other cars I have worked on.
Thanks for all the help and info so far.
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Stixy
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #10 on: May 9th, 2011, 5:32pm » |
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Try Linco's in Horncastle for the ATF 01507 527749
next time it does it switch off and restart and see if it still does it . what i have found is if for some reason it selects drive with a thump it will go into limp mode and misfire when reved
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #11 on: May 9th, 2011, 6:29pm » |
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Have you had the cruise control working previously?
Auto fluid goes in through the dipstick hole.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Mike H
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Renault Clio
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #12 on: May 9th, 2011, 6:41pm » |
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"lose power, thumping gear changes", sounds like what I used to get when the PCM threw in the towel and presumably went into limp home mode, all goes a bit weird then.
Like Stixy says if you stop and turn it off, it's like a reset.
Also thumping when you first select suggests idle speed is a bit too high.
When it's playing up is the green "O/D" light @ bottom left of dashboard flashing? I used to get this when it went into LOS (limp home mode)
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Mike H
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Andycan
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #13 on: May 10th, 2011, 11:03am » |
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I was told the cruise control was working but someone else told me that the relay was blue I think and in the glove compartment but there is only a yellow relay there and a space for another one so I assume the relay is missing.
I have not tried to turn the engine off and start it again but I will try it after fitting the new air filter which arrives this afternoon.
Mike it looses gear when at traffic lights and road junctions when still in drive then thumps into gear after I put my foot on the throttle. The O/D light didn't flash but I did think it might have gone into limp mode but it would go over 35 suggesting it didn't.
I have found a part used dextron 2 bottle in the boot so it could be the oil is contaminated? Or when the car hasn't been run the gearbox dipstick shows it is full so maybe it is overfull?
When filling the gearbox with oil how do you know it is full to the right level? On the capacities page here it suggests it takes over 10 litres but the local parts shop recon it takes just over 9 litres.
It looks like this scorp has been abused so I am trying to work my way through a major service on it to try and avoid a major breakdown.
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #14 on: May 10th, 2011, 11:11am » |
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Check the oil level properly buy following these instructions:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/autogearbox.htm
It may have a leak and just be low on oil
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy!  |
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #15 on: May 10th, 2011, 2:30pm » |
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Whether or not you have relays at all in the glove compartment seems to vary. My car has no relays at all in the glovebox & it has working cruise control.
I believe the switch located behind the brake pedal that cancels the CC can get misplaced & prevent it from working.
Just in case you’ve not used cruise before, you first have to enable it with the upper button on the left of the wheel, nothing happens until you set it with the + or - buttons on the right - you need to be above approx 25mph.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Andycan
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #16 on: May 10th, 2011, 5:22pm » |
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I will have to check that out Tompion.
After cleaning the maff and putting a new air filter in it took a while for the gearbox to go into drive and reverse and whilst it was deciding to go into drive or reverse the n/s mirror kept wiggling. After 5 minutes of changing from drive into reverse and back I took it for a test drive to get everything warmed up properly. She drove perfectly. Having warmed her up I checked the gearbox oil to find the dipstick dry. After a hour of cooling the dipstick had some oil on it but it was very thin so I will still carry out a filter and oil change asap.
After having it standing there for 2 days I I noticed a damp patch on n/s under the bonnet. On closer inspection the n/s of the steering rack and everything upto the tyre was covered in light oil yet all the oil levels are ok except the gearbox so am going to have to check all the n/s and pipes to try and find what is leaking and from where. I think this might have been a lemon but I will do my best to bring it upto better than showroom condition but it might take a while lol.
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Mike H
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #17 on: May 10th, 2011, 6:56pm » |
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on May 10th, 2011, 5:22pm, Andycan wrote:After cleaning the maff and putting a new air filter in it took a while for the gearbox to go into drive and reverse and whilst it was deciding to go into drive or reverse the n/s mirror kept wiggling.
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Ah 'cause the n/s door mirror dips down when you select reverse. Which is normal. Well it is for an Ultima
Quote:After 5 minutes of changing from drive into reverse and back I took it for a test drive to get everything warmed up properly. She drove perfectly.
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Good....
Quote:Having warmed her up I checked the gearbox oil to find the dipstick dry.
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Deffo not right ~ think when it's running the oil is sucked up to fill the converter isn't that right chaps? Which is why you have to check the level with engine running, otherwise it looks 'over full' (but it isn't really)
Quote:After a hour of cooling the dipstick had some oil on it but it was very thin so I will still carry out a filter and oil change asap.
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I think so because....
on May 10th, 2011, 11:03am, Andycan wrote:Mike it looses gear when at traffic lights and road junctions when still in drive then thumps into gear after I put my foot on the throttle.
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.... suggests fluid level is too low, but I'm guessing ~ (mine didn't do that BTW). Although ATF is pretty thin anyway as oils go, the important aspects are the colour and that there are no bits in it. I had bits in mine fortunately a fluid and filter change sorted that.
Quote: The O/D light didn't flash but I did think it might have gone into limp mode but it would go over 35 suggesting it didn't.
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I think if it goes into LOS O/D flashes, at least if the PCM thinks it's a transmission problem. Low fluid is maybe not enough
Quote:| It looks like this scorp has been abused so I am trying to work my way through a major service on it to try and avoid a major breakdown. |
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I was going to say what tends to happen is if previous owner(s) don't do the necessary elementary servicing things and just keep leaving it, it may be no more than simple neglect ~ that's how it was in my case anyway, unfortunately took me a while to learn about all the various bits and pieces, e.g. it was only last year I found out it had cabin filters! Which were black BTW lol
Quote:After having it standing there for 2 days I I noticed a damp patch on n/s under the bonnet. On closer inspection the n/s of the steering rack and everything upto the tyre was covered in light oil
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Maybe rack is leaking, they can do that, not unusual (lots of threads here about same), not difficult to fix, best way is get a recon or a new rack.
Quote:I think this might have been a lemon but I will do my best to bring it upto better than showroom condition
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Hopefully it's just a case of neglect like I said, bear in mind these cars are getting long in the tooth now so you have to expect the odd problem just due to age.
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Mike H
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Mike H
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #18 on: May 10th, 2011, 7:00pm » |
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PS: have we mentioned coil pack wiring yet? Have a look at the wires under the top plastic engine cover, they get cooked by the heat, it's a well known 16V weak spot.
While in that area be a good idea to pull the spark plugs as well to make sure they haven't unobtrusively worn out, gaps can get so big you wonder how it still works
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Mike H
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Stixy
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Re: engine and auto box problems
« Reply #19 on: May 10th, 2011, 7:10pm » |
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Have a close look at the oil cooler pipes they run under the bellhousing then down the exhaust side of the engine and can rust through and if its rusted a pinhole it will spray oil
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