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Topic: HELP! engine just dies (Read 2318 times) |
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pedropedro
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HELP! engine just dies
« on: Jul 22nd, 2011, 6:11pm » |
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started new thread but relates to earlier one 2.3
...pump and gauge had failed sorted loose plug, all was fine (i thought) ...then it died again today...so seems like x2 separate problems
I am almost certain its the edis unit ..I removed from wing and it restarted ..are these known to fail intermittently in other words just die spontaneously then work ok ?? ...I have new one ...but loathe to drive car until i find exactly the cause of this any help greatly appreciated
the wiring was ok as far as i can see ...john
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Mike H
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Renault Clio
 
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #1 on: Jul 22nd, 2011, 6:20pm » |
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Isn't there something about that elsewhere? Rhetorical question .... as in wiring has to be good ~ came up to do with some sort of damage to the offside front (?)
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Mike H
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Highlander
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13 Scorpios, XR4x4, Suzuki SJ413 for off road :)
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #2 on: Jul 22nd, 2011, 7:06pm » |
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Wiring I'd guess, usually when I see a failed EDIS its totally dead.
Try swapping the EDIS and see though
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on Oct 17th, 2011, 12:35pm, Simmo wrote:I give up !  Too much for an old boy!  |
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pedropedro
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Posts: 677
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #3 on: Jul 22nd, 2011, 7:19pm » |
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problem is it's working fine now
history.. it was dead, i removed checked edis wiring plug etc rconnected worked fine ,, left running for 5 mins died......repeated above checked all again reconnected works fine now....just got new edis unit ...but how do i know whether thats the problem
I drive long distances and cant risk it just dying ..apart from the tow truck issues etc ,,,i was in outside lane motorway and it stopped dead,no warning no spluttering etc, no power steering etc..thats what happened last week..scary
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Stixy
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #4 on: Jul 22nd, 2011, 7:25pm » |
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Is you engine loom in good condition ?
The edis needs a signal from the crank sensor ,the signal wires run through the top engine loom to the multiplug under the pas pipes a bad poor or oily conection will stop it running .
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Andycan
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #5 on: Jul 22nd, 2011, 7:28pm » |
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I wonder if there is a broken wire that looks ok? that could run ok when the ends made contact but heat or bumps could dislodge it and cause the engine to die?
I am sure it would show up if using a curcuit tester on the wires
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pedropedro
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #6 on: Jul 22nd, 2011, 8:03pm » |
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the crank senor has been changed but that was the first port of call...i thought the ford edis unit would still behave without a crank sensor signal ......maybe wrong .......the top loom has been changed
where are those crank sensor wires ? what do you mean under the gas pipes ?? any ideas really needed and appreciated...
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gozz
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #7 on: Jul 22nd, 2011, 8:26pm » |
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P ower
A ssisted
S teering
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Mike H
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Renault Clio
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #8 on: Jul 22nd, 2011, 8:26pm » |
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Google 'edis unit ford' (anybody) ~ looks complicated!
Seems to me it needs the crank sensor to know whether the engine is actually turning, if no signal, it must assume engine is stopped so no sparks, which seems reasonable.
Actually reminds me a mate years ago had this problem, might have been a Fiesta or somesuch, duff crank sensor that was, so no sparks, it do not run!
PS: seems like the signal is low Voltage as well so good wiring / connections probs essential. Yep need to check out all the associated wiring I think.
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Mike H
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pedropedro
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Posts: 677
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #9 on: Jul 22nd, 2011, 8:36pm » |
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its very complicated..i know the wires are the bn/rd and wh/rd for the crank sensor but the wires from the edis plug disappear into a loom about 10" down from the plug ...when engine running as it is now I can bend all the wires from the plug and the loom and nothing will make it stop....so up a gum tree as the say
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Stixy
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #10 on: Jul 22nd, 2011, 9:12pm » |
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The crank sensor wires pas through the top engine loom to the black multiplug on the inner wing in this plug it uses gold pins ,then it runs from the other half of the multiplug to the edis unit .
The edis unit tells the EEC-V that the engine is turning also its position and how fast is turning so the EEC-V can inject fuel and then tells the edis unit when to fire the plugs .
So no crank signal means no spark of fuel injection also if the EEC-V cant see a crank signal it will cut power to the fuel pump just the initial "prime" when the ignition is first turned on .
Next time it cuts out get sombody to listen closly to the fuel injectors while cranking the engine to see if they are clicking
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pedropedro
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Posts: 677
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #11 on: Jul 22nd, 2011, 10:17pm » |
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the injectors are dead when the problem occurs...there are x2 multi plug connectors on the inner wing ..which is the one in question?
why do you ask ? are the injectors controlled by the edi unit as well as generating the ignition signal
if the injectors are dead, and they are when fault happens, what does that tell you ?
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Stixy
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #12 on: Jul 23rd, 2011, 12:47am » |
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The multiplug is the black one
Normaly edis units either work or they dont so its difficult to say
Keep a spare edis unit in the car and next time the fault happens plug the spare in and if the car still doesnt start you have a problem with the crank sensor or the wiring between the sensor and edis unit or the sheilded wire from the edis module to the EEC-V
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pedropedro
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #13 on: Jul 23rd, 2011, 5:29am » |
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there are x2 black multi plugs side by side...which one is the one that carrys the crank sensor wiring please
you also said check to hear the injectors when it dies....should they be running if the edis has failed?
what controls the injectors ?
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Mike H
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Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #14 on: Jul 23rd, 2011, 12:00pm » |
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No he means, when it "dies", need to turn it on the starter and you or somebody else try to listen to the injector rail and hear if the injector valves are clicking. Possibly difficult to do!
I presume then that:
A. if injectors click, then EDIS / crank sensor OK, so must be something else
B. if not clicking, EDIS / crank sensor not telling computer that engine is actually turning over. So fault in that area
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Mike H
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Mike H
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Renault Clio
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #15 on: Jul 23rd, 2011, 12:03pm » |
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PS: also, and at risk of sounding like a scratched record  what is the state of spark plugs / ignition coils & HT leads ?
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Mike H
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #16 on: Jul 23rd, 2011, 12:22pm » |
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on Jul 23rd, 2011, 5:29am, pedropedro wrote:| there are x2 black multi plugs side by side...which one is the one that carrys the crank sensor wiring please |
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The multiplug is the one that feeds the black box that has the injector connectors on it.
It’s the cut off loom here:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/dohcloom.htm
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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pedropedro
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Posts: 677
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #17 on: Jul 23rd, 2011, 12:35pm » |
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so i assume its the one towards the rear of the car...i really need some help here...ive opened the wiring from the edis and there is a 3 core cable in black sleeving with r/w p/w and bk/white wires all rotten, all shorting...if i knew where they went i could run a new cable..ive tried buzzing through to the large rear connector the lower half the socket but cant find them
does anyone know where they go or has done this already ..could really help...
ive checked right down to the join as it goes under the wing and they are rotten ...any help appreciated
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pedropedro
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Posts: 677
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #18 on: Jul 23rd, 2011, 12:49pm » |
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it looks like that cable runs to the ecu any idea how i can get to it
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Mike H
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Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: HELP! engine just dies
« Reply #19 on: Jul 23rd, 2011, 1:12pm » |
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on Jul 23rd, 2011, 12:35pm, pedropedro wrote:ive opened the wiring from the edis and there is a 3 core cable in black sleeving with r/w p/w and bk/white wires all rotten, all shorting...if i knew where they went i could run a new cable..ive tried buzzing through to the large rear connector the lower half the socket but cant find them
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Reckon you found your problem! Sounds like the 3-core shielded set, diagram here:
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=eb36f845ea9b8fb6&id=EB36F845EA9B8FB6% 21146#
I got white/red white/violet white/black, outer sleeve black, goes to Powertrain Control Module (PCM) which is up under the dash above the glovebox.
However it's not like a bit of 3-core mains cable as it's got an outer earth screen connected to chassis, need to go to Maplin Electonics or somebody for a length of multi-way screened cable
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Mike H
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