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Topic: 2,3 doesn't start any more (Read 3104 times) |
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nobbel
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2,3 doesn't start any more
« on: Oct 27th, 2011, 6:00pm » |
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Hi,
I#m back again with a problem. Yesterday I changed the waterpump. Afterwards I filled in some coolant and started the engine. It ran with no problems. After a minute or so, about 1L of coolant came out, caused by the air in the system. After that, the engine ran like a bag filled with nuts and bolts and backfired like hell. I tried to keep the engine running but stopped that when I saw that the cat overheated with a nearlylight red colour. Today I tried to start the engine - no way! The starter motor works, but there is no ignition. I cleaned and dried everything, changes EDIS, opened and cleaned the main plug etc. - no reaction. No sparks, nothing. The main wiring-loom is in good condition. I couldn't see any cracks or so. The safety switch is in. By the way: I have a special power-chip, made by "Suhe". Has it been killed? If yes, I could pull it off. Would that work?
What can I do? Is this the ticket to the boneyard?
nobbel 
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nobbel
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #1 on: Nov 1st, 2011, 7:03am » |
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Hi,
newest news from the centre of darkness: it is a shortcut in the line between EDIS an ignition-coil "A" (the first in front). Now we have to search where it is exactly, because I have a warranty for the motor-wiring-loom. If the shortcut is between the ignition-coil and the main plug - fine. If not - that means between main plug and EDIS:
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Mike H
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Renault Clio
 
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #2 on: Nov 1st, 2011, 10:34am » |
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Can I ask, re "1L of coolant came out", came out of where?
You say "put some coolant in", does this mean you didn't completely fill it?
Sounds like when it came out it soaked some cables / connectors and so causing a short or shorts in the electrics, EDIS and wiring is in the area below header tank so if it came out of there that would make perfect sense.
Not sure offhand what antifreeze does to electrical wiring and electronics and wiring insulation but I would have preferred to avoid it! 
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Mike H
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Mike H
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #3 on: Nov 1st, 2011, 10:36am » |
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PS: not sure the warranty will stand up if you've soaked the loom with coolant which is what it sounds like.
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Mike H
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nobbel
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #4 on: Nov 1st, 2011, 11:52am » |
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Hi,
coolant came out there, where it is to be filled in. I filled in about 2 - 3 L before starting.
The loom is exactly 18 months old, so I think, there will be no cracks or so. Cables and connectors were cleaned with brake-cleaner and compressed air. Afterwards I added some WD40, just a little bit.
The warranty: that will only work, when the new loom has some cracks. The more I think about that, the more I think, the shortcut must be in the wiring leading from the main plug to EDIS. And: it's definitely a shortcut, because the engine starts and runs on two cylinders, when the first coilpack is disconnected and stopps immediately, when I re-connect it. We will see.
By the way: it's funny to see, with what a lot of interest the mechanics try to solve this problem. It tends to "0" (that guy should better buy a new car instead of dancing around that old wreck, they think). No, gentlemen, that would definitely not be! I love my car. It is in a good condition, all other systems work. It consumes no oil (200.000 KM!), not so much gasoline, 9,5L/100KM I think, and runs like hell. So what?
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Mike H
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #5 on: Nov 1st, 2011, 12:03pm » |
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Yeah I know, philistines!
Lot of people scoff at WD40 I know but still works for me getting and keeping water out. So maybe take plug off EDIS and make sure both connectors are dry.
Another possibility is the short blew something in the EDIS that drives the actual coil, if so it's knacked
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Mike H
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Matt
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #6 on: Nov 1st, 2011, 12:04pm » |
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Quote:| because the engine starts and runs on two cylinders, when the first coilpack is disconnected and stopps immediately, when I re-connect it. We will see. |
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swap the coil packs over, if it does the same then its the loom that runs from the ecu to the edis plug, you can just rewire this by finding the pins that go from the ecu to the edis plug
if the fault now swaps to the other 2 cylinders then you have a duff coil pack
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FDS2000 Scans - Birmingham
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Mike H
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #7 on: Nov 1st, 2011, 12:07pm » |
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Good thinking Batman
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Mike H
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nobbel
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #8 on: Nov 2nd, 2011, 6:34am » |
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on Nov 1st, 2011, 12:07pm, Mike H wrote:
When changing the coilpacks, the shortcut remains at the first line. Motor-wiring-loom is ok, it's the wiring leading to EDIS. I will try to fix it with shrink-tubing the next days.
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Mike H
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #9 on: Nov 2nd, 2011, 3:50pm » |
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Are you testing the continuity of, or shorts between, the wires, and if so how? Needs proper exploration with a multimeter set to Ohms mode, not just guessing.
I'm still not clear on a couple of things ~ when you refilled after replacing pump, did you partially refill (and if so, why only partially)
2. did it include antifreeze (if not why not)
3. was cap fastened on the header tank so water squirted out under pressure, or was it left off, or was it a hose left undone and it came out of there, and like that.
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Mike H
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nobbel
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #10 on: Nov 3rd, 2011, 6:10am » |
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on Nov 2nd, 2011, 3:50pm, Mike H wrote:Are you testing the continuity of, or shorts between, the wires, and if so how? Needs proper exploration with a multimeter set to Ohms mode, not just guessing.
I'm still not clear on a couple of things ~ when you refilled after replacing pump, did you partially refill (and if so, why only partially)
2. did it include antifreeze (if not why not)
3. was cap fastened on the header tank so water squirted out under pressure, or was it left off, or was it a hose left undone and it came out of there, and like that.
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Knowing that there was air inside the system, I filled it (with antifreeze) to max. The cap was not on. I waited for the air coming out.
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Mike H
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #11 on: Nov 3rd, 2011, 4:55pm » |
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Ah! OK. Just curious
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Mike H
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nobbel
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #12 on: Nov 3rd, 2011, 5:39pm » |
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on Nov 3rd, 2011, 4:55pm, Mike H wrote:
More curious things? Well,here they are. Got my car back this afternoon. Tested coilpack "A", servicing cylinders 2 and 3. Multimeter said: no shortcut. Repared two lines near the EDIS pack and controlled most of these wires. Result: nothing. Runs with coilpack "B" on cylinders 1 and 4 and stopps when attaching the plug for pack "A". Then I found some papers with the results of the test:
- malfunction in primary circuit FCLOW
- this code comes when there is a difference between the current status of the output-circuit of the fan-control - low RPM and to-state
- this is caused by
error probably relais
error probably in the relay module, if built in
- open circuit FCLOW
- shortcut in circuit FCLOW, low voltage
- error lies probably in the PCM
And now ? 
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nobbel
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #13 on: Nov 5th, 2011, 4:34pm » |
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Hi folks, I am back on the road again! It was the relay operating the fans and which is placed under the ABS. I replaced it by another one and the engine started easily and runs good.
Someone told me that motor-operation will be stopped, when the cooling-system has a malfunction. I dont know if this is true but it looks like that.
Werner
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Mike H
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #14 on: Nov 5th, 2011, 6:52pm » |
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Well I never! That's why I could not understand the fan mention, I thought what has that got to do with anything. Worth knowing for the future though.
So a load of water went into the relay and that was it.
I noted from another topic someone had written that, when refilling and then warm up engine to equalise the level, do not leave the filler cap off in case steam or water shoots out. Leave it loose instead
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Mike H
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nobbel
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #15 on: Nov 6th, 2011, 9:49am » |
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By the way: on your avatar (?) I see some lamps. Do you collect "Petromax"-lamps? I have two, one "Anchor", running on Petroleum and one original Petromax from the army, built 1959, brandnew when bought, running on normal fuel.
Werner
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Mike H
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #16 on: Nov 6th, 2011, 10:32pm » |
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LOL it's actually one half of a stereo valve amplifier, those are thermionic valves (tubes), although the small one in front has been changed back to being a black one.
For an idea of scale the one at the back is maybe 5 inches high. Either GZ37 or U54 full-wave rectifier. Next highest is 1 of 2 801A directly heated triodes who filaments glow white like light bulbs. Front one was 6EM7, almost the same effect. Photo was an experiment in long exposure
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Mike H
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Mike H
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Renault Clio
Posts: 2594
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #17 on: Nov 6th, 2011, 10:41pm » |
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Ok found a picture of the whole thing, with its power supply unit on the right. The bits underneath are a VCR and the volume control box.
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Mike H
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nobbel
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #18 on: Nov 7th, 2011, 5:42am » |
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ooops, my fault!
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Mike H
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Renault Clio
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Re: 2,3 doesn't start any more
« Reply #19 on: Nov 7th, 2011, 12:56pm » |
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lol no worries, very imaginative guess though.
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Mike H
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