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Topic: Engine misbehaving (Read 3699 times) |
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magnetono59
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Engine misbehaving
« on: Jan 12th, 2013, 9:31pm » |
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Ford Scorpio 2L 16V estate. New years eve car would turn over but not fire. A suggestion on the site disconnect battery and reconnect worked. However two days later car would not turn over battery flat. Connected spare battery in parallel to find that both cooling fans on at high speed hence flat battery. Located cooling fan relay and dismantled looked ok. Even with relay out fans were attempting to move. Removed fuse 39 to stop and I am now driving without fans temporarily. There are other gremlins as sometimes the car will start ok and other times it takes several attempts. All this has happened since new years eve. Any suggestions appreciated.
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PJDavis
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2 x 1995 Jag X300 3.2 / 4.0 (Henley) 1957 XK140
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Re: Engine misbehaving
« Reply #1 on: Jan 13th, 2013, 7:16am » |
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The 2.0 ltr and 2.3 electric fans default to permanent ON if the sensor fails. I only know this because on all of my cars that have ever had an electric fan I like to fit an inline switch to control them for when I drive in a foreign country. I drove my Scorpio to Malta in 2011, and when I got to Malta it was 44 degrees C, with a blanket speed limit of 40 mph, the electric fans were on for most of the month when I drove it. The Zodiac I have over there has twin kenlowes fitted with a switch also, although it has a lower thermostat.
I would be looking at the wires going to the sensor that controls the fans, they get 'crispy' !
Peter
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1995 Jaguar XJ6 X300 3.2 (Henley)
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X330 4.0 (Dopey)
1957 Jaguar XK140 USA (converted to RHD, and to have fitted Mk10 420G Engine with BW 65 Auto Trans)
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magnetono59
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Re: Engine misbehaving
« Reply #2 on: Jan 13th, 2013, 6:18pm » |
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I had a look at the wiring of the temperature sensor and it appears to be included in the fuel shut off loom. This job planned to replace or repair the loom. I have the wire and I have a request elsewhere in the site for a discarded loom. I could repair the discarded loom which would make the job easier.
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magnetono59
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Re: Engine misbehaving
« Reply #3 on: Jan 17th, 2013, 8:29pm » |
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Still in hopes that somebody will help me out with my problem. Cooling fans still operating eratically. I have to disconnect the battery and leave it disconnected for approx one minute before the car will start. The battery cover is in place and there appears to be no dampness in the fuse box. I pulled fuses 44 and 39 today and found that there is 12V across the fuse terminals. According to the diagram of the cooling circuit this is impossible. Fuse 39 goes to fan 1 and fuse 44 goes to fan 2 via a contact, both should be open circuit until the relay operates. I removed the fan connectors with the same result. I have made a donation. The car is pointed towards the breakers yard.
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Snoopy
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Re: Engine misbehaving
« Reply #4 on: Jan 18th, 2013, 8:00am » |
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Sounds like a serious wiring problem... Check the wiring loom for shorts the looms are VERY prone to damage, which cause all sorts of problems.
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Simmo
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Re: Engine misbehaving
« Reply #5 on: Jan 18th, 2013, 8:13am » |
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One well known location is wiring to the fans etc where it passes across the car from N/Side to offside adjacent to the rad. 
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Bikerdon
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2.0 Ultima saloon, Norton 500, Suzuki 550.
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Re: Engine misbehaving
« Reply #6 on: Jan 18th, 2013, 9:34am » |
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This is the exact same issue I had with my scorp, fans running, flat battery, having to disconnect to get it started etc, as Simmo says it will be the loom. On mine it was the main section of the loom which comes through the bulkhead from the cabin and runs along the n/s front wing on top of the chassis leg. When I peeled off the insulation on it I was met with badly damaged insulation on many of the wires and a couple of them had actually broken, the damaged area only ran from the bulkhead to the front of the car though, but it is this loom which also contains the wiring from the various engine sensors to the engine managment cpu, the rest of it along in front of the rad was ok on mine. It took me many hours, lots of heatshrink and insulating tape and a few spliced sections to sort out but it solved my problem once and for all. You just need to be patient and methodical with the repairs if you find the wiring is damaged there as its a bit of a fiddly job.
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Simmo
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Re: Engine misbehaving
« Reply #7 on: Jan 18th, 2013, 11:03am » |
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Thank you Don. I couldn't remember exactly who had encountered this recently but I knew the symptoms were very similar. 
Mag59. This site may help if you go down Don's route. My view is that IF you can get clear heatshrink over the cables you will preserve the existing wiring and its colour code and hopefully be able to cut and solder in the most accessible place. Good luck and please let us know how you get on and a photo or two if possible.
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magnetono59
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Re: Engine misbehaving
« Reply #8 on: Jan 18th, 2013, 5:43pm » |
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Problem solved. Amazing. I have just read the replies to find that this is exactly what I found when I went at the fault this morning. Haviing come to the conclusion after looking at the wiring diagram that it was impossible to have a voltage across the fuse, it had to be a fault somewhere in the loom. I started at the relay and removed the tape and found my problem about six inches down where the loom makes a 90 degree turn towards the front of the car. The insulation was damaged wires corroded and shorting. I cut the wires fed in a heat shrink sleeve joined the wires and soldered and covered the joint with the sleeve. It makes a big difference. I was surprised to find when I visited the site this evening that my problem has been experienced before and the solution was exactly what I had carried out. My scorpio estate is saved from the breakers yard for another while. I would attached some photos if somebody can show me how to do it. A number of cables had wires broken but this may have happened while cutting the tape. Many thanks for all the help. The site is a great help to us Scorpio owners who would like to keep our Scorpio's on the road for as long as it is economically possible.
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Simmo
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Re: Engine misbehaving
« Reply #9 on: Jan 18th, 2013, 6:06pm » |
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That is great news !!  and I'm sure Don will be pleased to know that we seem to be identifying a 'trend' which can only benefit others. That's exactly what the site is about. Photo's need to be 'hosted' before you can post them and there is a good write up in How to do Things Please resize the photos to 640x480 to save Snoopy's blood pressure !.  Well done!.
Look Here
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PJDavis
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2 x 1995 Jag X300 3.2 / 4.0 (Henley) 1957 XK140
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Re: Engine misbehaving
« Reply #10 on: Jan 18th, 2013, 6:46pm » |
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Very glad that this problem is sorted. I dread the day that I have this kind of electrical problem, I'm not very patient with electrics! Although I have re-built a gearbox loom!
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I love 'Movvy'
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X300 3.2 (Henley)
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X330 4.0 (Dopey)
1957 Jaguar XK140 USA (converted to RHD, and to have fitted Mk10 420G Engine with BW 65 Auto Trans)
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
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Re: Engine misbehaving
« Reply #11 on: Jan 20th, 2013, 2:03am » |
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Did the loom damage look something like this ? .....
This was a friends loom that I pulled out about three years ago 
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Snoopy
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Re: Engine misbehaving
« Reply #12 on: Jan 20th, 2013, 7:43am » |
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Magnetrono59
If you have problems hosting pictures for the forum send them to ME (Snoopy)and I will do it on my web space.
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magnetono59
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Re: Engine misbehaving
« Reply #13 on: Jan 20th, 2013, 4:37pm » |
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Jonnycab
Yes the damage to the loom was like the in your photo insulation crumbling. My next job is to replace the fuel shut of loom damaged like the one in your photo. I am trying to source an old one so that I repair it and take out the damaged loom and fit the repaired loom at the same time. I am concerned about access to the two lower sensors.
Snoopy
I have succeeded in uploading photos of the damage to the cooling fan loom to photobucket and I am now trying to copy the link into my post. So far I am not succeeding. I copy the link into the post and it appears there but when I press Refresh Preview I am getting a message in the post telling me SORRY this person has moved or deleted this image.I have included a link below. The link does not appear in the post.
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Simmo
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Re: Engine misbehaving
« Reply #14 on: Jan 20th, 2013, 4:41pm » |
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Before you give up check out the Post in How to do Things re posting photos. That relates to Photobucket and IIRC you need to use img not Img?.
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magnetono59
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Re: Engine misbehaving
« Reply #15 on: Jan 20th, 2013, 6:28pm » |
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Think I got it at last. I changed the IMG to lower case and it worked.
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