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Topic: lack of power (Read 4778 times) |
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Remy43
Newbie
'98 24v Cosworth
  
Posts: 26
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lack of power
« on: Apr 6th, 2013, 11:46am » |
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Hi all,
Compared to my older 24v, the one i drive now is quite a bit slower on the gas. The first difference between both is when i start driving. You need to push the pedal a bit deeper before it starts rolling in D or R.
It's just slower, in every which way.
Checked if something is turning heavy, like the brakes or diff, couldn't find anything. Gearbox seems to works great.
So perhaps it could be a camshaft which has jumped a teeth, because of a not so good working timing chain tensioner? Haven't checked that yet, but it could be, right?
Normally a 24v does the 0-100 in 8,4 secs (my old one did)
This one does it in 9,5......
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PJDavis
Senior Member
2 x 1995 Jag X300 3.2 / 4.0 (Henley) 1957 XK140
Posts: 1474
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Re: lack of power
« Reply #1 on: Apr 6th, 2013, 10:48pm » |
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When was the last time the car was serviced properly? I mean properly? You can't just take a timing-mark and then just say "The car is slower"............that has very-little to do with real performance. Above all, all these cars are quite old now, so try to think of the car as a comfortable chair rather than some kind of 'boy-racers' 'slide-mobeel'. Having said that, mine will still blow-the-erse off of any Scots Scorpio..............It's the way I look after it!!!!
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I love 'Movvy'
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X300 3.2 (Henley)
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X330 4.0 (Dopey)
1957 Jaguar XK140 USA (converted to RHD, and to have fitted Mk10 420G Engine with BW 65 Auto Trans)
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: lack of power
« Reply #2 on: Apr 7th, 2013, 1:28am » |
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Have you done the basics, like checking the spark plugs/ignition leads. Old & worn plugs/leads can really slow a car down 
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Remy43
Newbie
'98 24v Cosworth
Posts: 26
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Re: lack of power
« Reply #3 on: Apr 7th, 2013, 7:42am » |
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on Apr 7th, 2013, 1:28am, Jonnycab wrote:| Have you done the basics, like checking the spark plugs/ignition leads. Old & worn plugs/leads can really slow a car down |
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yep, already replaced (new plugs).. wiring from the older scorp which ran good
perhaps something else electric..?
thnx!
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Remy43
Newbie
'98 24v Cosworth
Posts: 26
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Re: lack of power
« Reply #4 on: Apr 7th, 2013, 7:51am » |
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on Apr 6th, 2013, 10:48pm, PJDavis wrote:| When was the last time the car was serviced properly? I mean properly? You can't just take a timing-mark and then just say "The car is slower"............that has very-little to do with real performance. Above all, all these cars are quite old now, so try to think of the car as a comfortable chair rather than some kind of 'boy-racers' 'slide-mobeel'. Having said that, mine will still blow-the-erse off of any Scots Scorpio..............It's the way I look after it!!!! |
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When i bought it, it was slow, it's still slow. My older car was pretty much faster. Both '98.. both same mileage. Older car was more direct, also in the gearbox. It does feel like the old chair example, but that's easy thinking. This has a cause which can be fixed, i'm sure...
You have to understand there's nothing wrong with it's service. I ride dirtbikes for over 20 years now and 'till 2006, that was all i could do. Riding them and fix em. All my bikes were like new so there's nothing wrong with my way of servicing it In fact, i think i'm overdoing it sometimes.
Well anyway, i think it HAS to do with performance.
And it should run like an animal, just like the older scorpio (which blew the erse of every dutch scorp..)
thnx though
anybody have an idea of what could be wrong?
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Icarus
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I'm a YaBB newbie!
Posts: 36
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Re: lack of power
« Reply #5 on: Apr 7th, 2013, 9:25am » |
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The problem could be either in the engine or transmission I guess.
Engine power is produced by burning the correct amount of fuel to a given amount of air, so if there is a problem there, then less power is to be made. Are there any fault codes present, such as a lambda fault?
I'm guessing that you have checked the air filter and that there are no obstructions in the air intake?
Could an injector or 2 have a slight flow issue? Has the fuel filter been replaced?
I know even less about auto gearboxes then manual ones, but could the autobox be dragging the engine down somehow?
Oh, have you checked that your getting full throttle also? Had a problem once on another car, where the throttle pedal was not opening the throttle fully as a newly installed carpet, which was thicker then the old one, stopped the pedal achieving full travel!
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leewar
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Re: lack of power
« Reply #6 on: Apr 7th, 2013, 11:33am » |
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Cats blocked
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Remy43
Newbie
'98 24v Cosworth
Posts: 26
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Re: lack of power
« Reply #7 on: Apr 7th, 2013, 2:03pm » |
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on Apr 7th, 2013, 9:25am, Icarus wrote:The problem could be either in the engine or transmission I guess.
Engine power is produced by burning the correct amount of fuel to a given amount of air, so if there is a problem there, then less power is to be made. Are there any fault codes present, such as a lambda fault?
I'm guessing that you have checked the air filter and that there are no obstructions in the air intake?
Could an injector or 2 have a slight flow issue? Has the fuel filter been replaced?
I know even less about auto gearboxes then manual ones, but could the autobox be dragging the engine down somehow?
Oh, have you checked that your getting full throttle also? Had a problem once on another car, where the throttle pedal was not opening the throttle fully as a newly installed carpet, which was thicker then the old one, stopped the pedal achieving full travel! |
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No faults, but i could check again (checked it when i bought it in january)
Fuel filter replaced last week, air intake is ok.
Will check the injectors.. Think that if the gearbox would slow down, you would feel it when you get your feet off the throttle... and it slows down just like my older scorp did.
Good point about the throttle deepness, but it's just that you have to put the throttle more down to achieve the same as another scorp.
I'll check the points you mentioned, thank you 
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Remy43
Newbie
'98 24v Cosworth
Posts: 26
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Re: lack of power
« Reply #8 on: Apr 7th, 2013, 2:06pm » |
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on Apr 7th, 2013, 11:33am, leewar wrote:| Cats blocked |
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Could be, i'll check that. Thanks 
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TiberiuS
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Ex. 1996 2.3 Ultima - RIP P789 KHJ
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Re: lack of power
« Reply #9 on: Apr 12th, 2013, 7:54pm » |
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Remy, in my experience I'd be thinking along the lines of a fuel related fault - ignition misfires etc. tend to be a lot more obvious.
Is the fuel strainer filter in the tank clear of debris? What about fuel pressure at the rail? I'd imagine a fuel pressure related fault would show up more at higher RPM but it's worth checking - I've had a fuel pressure regulator go out of spec and deliver all round lower fuel pressure before.
Apart from lacking power, does the engine run as smoothly as your other 24v?
I've driven a V6 which had slipped a tooth on the timing chain and that spluttered and pinked under load.
Is it possible for you to get a diagnostic readout? Also to check whether there any stored DTCs. Throttle position sensor values might be worth checking - a worn throttle sensor could also mess with the gearbox shifts, some of the shifting logic is throttle controlled.
If you can't sort it, on a whim I'd be inclined to do a compression test, in case the engine is just more worn than the old one
Bruce.
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Nunnspoet
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I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Posts: 798
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Re: lack of power
« Reply #10 on: Apr 13th, 2013, 10:54am » |
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Hi Remy.
You seem to be on top of things regarding servicing etc., and no Codes. But still got that dragging feeling . Well I have also "been there", as they say. Frustrating to say the least.
However not any more, both my 24 valve Scorpio Estates are, lets say EAGER  .
What did I do?
Having cleaned the MAF - No difference, I removed the the Intake Plenum leaving the spiders in situ, and checked all the vacum hoses thoroughly including all their joints, origins and destinations, being carefull not to cause any damage to the hoses I just made sure they were supple, often on old hoses that are in one positiion they become stiff and can allow unwanted air to enter/exit.
I checked all the wiring conections in that area. The hoses take up a lot of the limited space and can press down on the variious wires/cables. I found a couple of wires where this had happened (I had had the Centre loom pined out/replaced a couple of years ago), and rectified that. .
Making sure that all was as should be between the Spider legs I repaced the Inlet Plenum, fitting new "O" rings and ensuring a good fit where the Vacum hose fits into the VIS. I think its called the vis - its the small piece joining the front of the Spiders together and when you floor the throttle it operates a butterfly valve inside it and your Scorp takes off like a scalded cat, . Me memory's bad,  .
I have removed the EGRs from both Scorps so I made sure that there was no leaks there - in the top of the Exhaust 2x1pence pieces clamped and in the back of the Intake Plemum. Also the vacume hoses to the EGRs.
These "fixes" worked , , ...... However, there is always an "However" with our Scorps. My original "The Beast" Scorpio was not altogether happy, . So I checked the length of her Exhaust System. It is the original system and has had 150 thousand miles down her pipes. No big leaks but one or two here and there, which I Gum-Gummed. RESULT. Yeehaa.
Mike
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Remy43
Newbie
'98 24v Cosworth
Posts: 26
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Re: lack of power
« Reply #11 on: Apr 19th, 2013, 1:58pm » |
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thanks mike, i'll try after i've replaced 1 (or 2) lambda's.
computer says:
P0138 Downstream Heated Oxygen Sensor circuit Voltage High - Bank No. 1.
and
P0161 Downstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Heater circuit fault - Bank No. 2.
Does anybody know which one(s) are broke? The one(s) behind the catalytic converter..?
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: lack of power
« Reply #12 on: Apr 19th, 2013, 4:15pm » |
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The downstream sensors are after the cat & monitor the efficiency of the upstream sensors, it’s said they have no effect on the running of the engine if the upstream sensors are OK but they can take over if an upstream sensor is faulty. If it were me I’d change them but wouldn’t expect much effect.
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Simmo
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Re: lack of power
« Reply #13 on: Apr 20th, 2013, 7:00am » |
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on Apr 19th, 2013, 1:58pm, Remy43 wrote:thanks mike, i'll try after i've replaced 1 (or 2) lambda's.
computer says:
P0138 Downstream Heated Oxygen Sensor circuit Voltage High - Bank No. 1.
and
P0161 Downstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Heater circuit fault - Bank No. 2.
Does anybody know which one(s) are broke? The one(s) behind the catalytic converter..? |
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This may help.
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Remy43
Newbie
'98 24v Cosworth
Posts: 26
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Re: lack of power
« Reply #14 on: Apr 20th, 2013, 7:55am » |
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on Apr 19th, 2013, 4:15pm, Tompion wrote:| The downstream sensors are after the cat & monitor the efficiency of the upstream sensors, it’s said they have no effect on the running of the engine if the upstream sensors are OK but they can take over if an upstream sensor is faulty. If it were me I’d change them but wouldn’t expect much effect. |
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hm ok.. darn
thnx
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Remy43
Newbie
'98 24v Cosworth
Posts: 26
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Re: lack of power
« Reply #15 on: Apr 20th, 2013, 7:56am » |
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on Apr 20th, 2013, 7:00am, Simmo wrote:
 sure does, didn't find that yet, thnx!
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Remy43
Newbie
'98 24v Cosworth
Posts: 26
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Re: lack of power
« Reply #16 on: Jul 12th, 2013, 7:31pm » |
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Solved.. replaced the downstream sensors and it helped.
So it could be that the sensors before the cats are faulty. But no errors besides the faulty downstream ones...
Ah well, glad it helped
Thnx again for all the suggestions
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