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Topic: Problem with electric windows and locks (Read 631 times) |
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Nestori
Newbie
Scorpio Cosworth 1995
Posts: 13
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Problem with electric windows and locks
« on: Jun 26th, 2013, 12:44pm » |
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Hi everyone,
I own a 1995 Scorpio Cosworth sedan which is basically with Ultima-trim I think. The problem I have is that while this car has electric windows at both front and rear doors the switches on front doors do not operate the any of the windows.
The driverside door has controls for both front and rear windows and they are all dead. The passenger side front door control does not work either but it is still possible to operate the rear windows from the rear doors.
Things checked so far:
-Fuses look to be ok
-The side mirror's control on the driverside door works
-The driver's seat memory function does not seem to work but the buttons are lit when pressed
-The modules looked ok. I opened the driverside module and there was no moisture inside it or nothing. The weldings seemed to be ok too.
Can anyone help me by suggesting what to check next on the car? I just realised that I might have not measured if the window control buttons get current when the engine is running so I'll do that next.
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Simmo
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I'm an OAP !
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Re: Problem with electric windows and locks
« Reply #1 on: Jun 26th, 2013, 2:38pm » |
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The wiring to these units is fed through a connector between the door pillar and the door itself just above the lower door hinge. The 'check strap' for the door touches the rubber sleeving so it may have fractured a cable. Check the rubber sleeving and then undo the connector, clean the contacts in both sections and see if that helps. Both front doors have the same set up. 
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Snoopy
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Very old.BAD tempered and missing friends.
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Re: Problem with electric windows and locks
« Reply #2 on: Jun 26th, 2013, 5:22pm » |
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Just because the fuses "look" OK it is best to try an new fuse. They have been known to fail after many years but still look OK.
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Nestori
Newbie
Scorpio Cosworth 1995
Posts: 13
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Re: Problem with electric windows and locks
« Reply #3 on: Jun 26th, 2013, 8:34pm » |
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Thanks for the tips, I changed three fuses that had something to do with the windows and with the central locking according to the usermanual. Think they were numbers 25, 26 and some other. I also cleaned the contacts of the cable Simmo mentioned (on both doors) but the situation did not change. The rubber sleeving was slightly worn but not to so much that I think would affect the inner wirings.
Didnt have a chance to measure the buttons with a multimeter yet, so I guess I'll do that next.
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Problem with electric windows and locks
« Reply #4 on: Jun 27th, 2013, 3:24am » |
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I had a similar problem a few years ago & if memory serves me correct, it was a loose connection to the door module on the underside of the driver side fusebox (passenger side for you).
It requires a bit of body contortion to see up there, but you should be able to stick a hand up there & push the door module multiplug back into touch
Hope this helps
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Problem with electric windows and locks
« Reply #5 on: Jun 27th, 2013, 9:55am » |
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It'll still be Drivers side fusebox as they swap the side it's fitted.
You can see the underside of the fusebox if you click on the last picture here:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/fusebox.htm
You may not see it at first as you may have to unclip some insulation held on the studs you can see in the picture.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Nestori
Newbie
Scorpio Cosworth 1995
Posts: 13
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Re: Problem with electric windows and locks
« Reply #7 on: Jun 27th, 2013, 1:06pm » |
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Thanks Jonnycab and Tompion! I'll try to check the fusebox multiplug next.
Edit: fixed a typo..
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Nestori
Newbie
Scorpio Cosworth 1995
Posts: 13
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Re: Problem with electric windows and locks
« Reply #8 on: Sep 5th, 2013, 9:31am » |
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Ok, fusebox and multiplugs checked and soaked with contact cleaner - no change.
Replaced drivers door multiplex module - no change.
No power coming to the window switches (buttons) but the multiplex module seems to get power - at least on one of the wires.
FFS.
Grounding problem? And how to check if the actual window motor is working?
There's something with the fusebox/multiplugs as when I fiddle with the plugs the aircon blowers will occasionally go to full throttle and some of the interior lights will go off at the same time. This did not change even though I cleaned the contacts with the multiplug that caused this and I could not make sure that which fuse it was that was causing this.
If I remove the whole fusebox and try to open / clean it, will it be just plug and play to get the car going again after this? Providing that I do not break the whole box in the process. Radiocode I have.
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Nestori
Newbie
Scorpio Cosworth 1995
Posts: 13
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Re: Problem with electric windows and locks
« Reply #10 on: Sep 8th, 2013, 9:35pm » |
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Thank again Tompion, I appreciate the advice.
I decided I'd try to remove all the fuses and relays and then spray more contact cleaner to both of the fuseboxes to see if it would get rid of possible moisture in them and make a difference. I started by taking pictures of the boxes so I would remember which relay and fuse went where without having to look at the manual so much. Then I disconnected the battery negative and then removed the fuses and relays and sprayed contact cleaner in to the boxes. Then I let it settle for the night. I did not touch the relays in the glovebox.
Now after 24h I put the fuses and relays back, connected the battery and... well it didn't help with the windows. Instead I ended up with the interior lights not working at all and the AC button does not even light up when pressed AND it only blows hot air now from the vents! Great success.  Ok, the AC did not actually work before either, but atleast the button lit up when pressed and I was able to get cold air from the blower (as cold as it was outside that is). Weird thing too that it flashed the "03" code before I disconnected the battery but not anymore. I was not able to perform the "CC reset" as instructed in these webpages, pressing the two buttons for 30sec did not do anything.
I checked (and replaced some) the fuses to see if it would help, but no.
I think I'll go to my local Ford dealer and by few new relays and switch them over and check the fuses once more. If no help from there then I think I really need to disasseble the fusebox(es).
EDIT: found this: http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action= display;num=1345666307 - will check those.
The bright side is that the engine felt more powerful than it did before this. 
Slightly off-topic, does anyone know if there should be a sound alarm for any reason when putting the car into gear? I found one disconnected wire under the gear selector that caused this sound when connected, so had to disconnect it again. It's the same sound than if you forget to switch off the lights when opening the door with engine shut off.
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Problem with electric windows and locks
« Reply #11 on: Sep 9th, 2013, 9:43am » |
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Yes there is an in gear sounder that operates when the driver’s door is opened, some people disconnect it.
Fuse 36 (power saver) can be the cause of no interior lights & the in gear sounder staying on with the door shut.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Nestori
Newbie
Scorpio Cosworth 1995
Posts: 13
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Re: Problem with electric windows and locks
« Reply #12 on: Sep 9th, 2013, 8:59pm » |
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Yeah it was the powersaver relay. The int.lights are back to normal now, but the AC is still a puzzle. Haven't changed the AC relay from the glovebox yet, just checked the fuses.
The AC button does not operate and neither does does the button for internal air circulation. Both buttons lit up before I removed the relays and fuses.
Heated seat function started to work now, which is nice. Soaked the relay and the buttons with contact cleaner.
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Nestori
Newbie
Scorpio Cosworth 1995
Posts: 13
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Re: Problem with electric windows and locks
« Reply #13 on: Sep 15th, 2013, 8:42pm » |
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The AC / heater is acting weird. I removed the heater controlpanel just to check that the wires are ok and attached properly and I guess they were. I run the blower with the cable plugged off and then attached the cable back and now it only blows cold air. The AC button still does not work and I'm not able to reset the CC because turning the controls all the way to left + pressing the two buttons does not do anything.
I tried to switch another relay to the glove box's AC relay but it did not change anything. It was not an identical relay that I tried but I think it should have done the trick if the AC problem was with the relay. New relay would have cost 36EUR at local Ford dealer, so decided to try something else...
I'm really puzzled right now that what the problem is with the temperature control not working. I thought that the control motors might have been jammed but I guess not because they have obviously moved when I fiddled with the control panels wire. Should there be any sound coming from the heater ducts when changing the temperature settings?
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Problem with electric windows and locks
« Reply #15 on: Sep 16th, 2013, 4:10pm » |
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There are 3 control motors for the flaps, 2 on one side & one on the other you can see them from the footwells & check whether they move or not.
Some people have found a new CC panel was required when they couldn’t do a reset. Others have had to replace the SATC.
As the buttons don’t work on yours that may be why you can’t do a reset. It might be worth pulling all fuses and checking them with a meter as all functions of the fuses aren’t mentioned in the handbook.
For example fuse 8 is listed as radio but it also controls some functions of the CC panel (but not the ones you have a problem with) so there must be other fuses relating to it.
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ABS multiplug wheel sensor pins MK IV or MK 20
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Nestori
Newbie
Scorpio Cosworth 1995
Posts: 13
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Re: Problem with electric windows and locks
« Reply #16 on: Sep 24th, 2013, 6:42am » |
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Thanks again, I changed almost all the fuses to new ones, found one bad relay (rear window heater) and changed it to a working one and also plugged out and in the central fusebox's main multiplug.
The result was that the interior aircirculation button functioned for almost one second! The the light went out again. I coud hear a control motor turning when I pressed the button and then instantly stopped, so either it blew a fuse or then there really is a stuck flap somewhere. Or both. I'm opting for the stuck flap atm but have to check the fuses of course. I didn't have time to examine it more as my two year old assistant mechanic started going through a pile of rotten apples on the yard to find an eatable one.
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Simmo
Administrator
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Posts: 5508
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Re: Problem with electric windows and locks
« Reply #17 on: Sep 24th, 2013, 8:14am » |
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If you've removed the main multiplug it may not be back in position correctly. Read This and see if that helps.
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Nestori
Newbie
Scorpio Cosworth 1995
Posts: 13
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Re: Problem with electric windows and locks
« Reply #18 on: Sep 24th, 2013, 11:07am » |
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Hi Simmo, I have checked that too as Tompion instructed, thanks
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