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Topic: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled (Read 3991 times) |
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tiggerlit
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scorpio ultima auto 2.3 estate r reg
 
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jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« on: Nov 4th, 2015, 11:11pm » |
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hi guys need some help again please
got a 2.3 ultima automatic
dont the head gasket and timming chain and when driving above 1.5 revs its a beauty but below that its really bad.
its burning fuel on low revs and jumping like a kangaroo.
took it to the garage they done the following
head gasket test ok
chambers checked all ok
timming checked ok
inlet and out let pressure test checked ok
full dionostic done ok says nothing wrong (sorry for the spelling)
and the garage is baffled. they have kept the car to see what else it could be
any ideas what it could be thanks
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Simmo
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Re: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« Reply #1 on: Nov 5th, 2015, 9:36am » |
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Read the section on Poor Idle I'd suggest the most likely cause is to do with the wiring having been disturbed during the work you describe. Have you cleaned the MAF and is it connected?. It has happened before that the connector has not been replaced after removal as it falls down out of sight behind the rad. Such a fault should show though in a diagnostic test. 
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tiggerlit
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scorpio ultima auto 2.3 estate r reg
Posts: 164
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Re: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« Reply #2 on: Nov 6th, 2015, 6:16pm » |
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its had a new maf
and the garage is saying its a machanic fault as their machine is saying no fault electric wise.
he says after fitting a new maf that its a bit better but not 100% and that its still miss firing on idle.
hes also saying that he thinks the bottom camshafts bearings are noisy and could be causing the problem, but when hubby first done the timming it was perfect except the rattling of the plastic guide that had broke. so he had to take it all off again to replace the plastic guide and this is when it started to have problems.
any ideas guys as not sure if i should trust what the mechanic says and i havent got money for them to mess around if you know what i mean, thanks
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Andycan
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Re: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« Reply #3 on: Nov 6th, 2015, 11:12pm » |
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I am not familiar with the 2.3 scorpio setup but I would have checked the maff and connectors and seals also the vacuum pipes and wiring. I would also get a second opinion from a different garage. Maybe another member might pop over to you to check the codes and have a look? I am sure there are some near you. I know there were some at Guildford and Woking and Southampton way so a nice ride out if it is a nice day lol.
Like Simmo said it sounds like something was dislodged when the work was done on it.
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PJDavis
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2 x 1995 Jag X300 3.2 / 4.0 (Henley) 1957 XK140
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Re: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« Reply #4 on: Nov 7th, 2015, 12:09am » |
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How far have you driven the car since the work? You know that with these blasted cars,you might have to drive as much as 20 miles in ONE-GO to make sure their ignition-map is complete? That would include country driving, motorway driving etc. I didn't realise this until short ago when I got a new gearbox fitted, and Dave the gearbox man told me. Once it took 30 miles for the codes to clear.
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1995 Jaguar XJ6 X300 3.2 (Henley)
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Glyn
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Re: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« Reply #5 on: Nov 7th, 2015, 2:30am » |
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Well said Peter, I can confirm that. I had some work done on one of my 24v's and on driving it home from the garage I thought it was going to die on me a couple of times in heavy very slow moving traffic. I phoned my garage guy (who worked for years in a Ford main dealers and grew up with the scorpios) and he immediately told me he was sorry but he had not had time for a test drive which he explained he usually does if the battery has been disconnected, so that that the ECU etc are re-programmed. He said that I had not driven far enough (4 miles) or a varied speed etc for the car to re learn the values of sensors etc. He told me that there is actually a schedule for re-programming but no one used it preferring the alternative of taking the car for a good drive, at least ten miles, preferably 20. Doing that solved the problem of course.
He said it should be done even if the battery has not been disconnected if a new component has been fitted (eg a throttle position sensor) as the car has to learn the new values as it will still be trying to compensate for the component which was failing.
Hope that makes sense, I know what I mean anyway. Apologies if it's confusing.
Glyn
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tiggerlit
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scorpio ultima auto 2.3 estate r reg
Posts: 164
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Re: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« Reply #6 on: Nov 25th, 2015, 4:45pm » |
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hi sorry i havent replied lately the car has been at the garage for 3 weeks now and have only just got it back with the same problem still.
ive read the bit on the site about a 24v idle problem, does the 2.3 16v have the washers?
it seemed ok when we picked it up there was no problem but after a few mins when it got warm it started again so it seems to happen when the engine gets warm.
all the sensors have been replaced and hasnt changed it.
got back and had to go straight out again and now when its ilde not only is it jumping the lights are flickering.
the other thing is when hubby went to put the plunger in he dropped it and set it off. but between him and my dad they surpressed it again and fitted it, could that be the problem the plunger was brand new
thanks guys
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Glyn
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Re: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« Reply #7 on: Nov 25th, 2015, 7:42pm » |
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Not familiar with the 2.3, but have had the problem with the 24v. It was due to a cracked T piece in the vacuum pipes and took ages to find (behind the cylinder head on the 24v). Seems that when cold the revs were held high enough for it not to matter but as soon as it warmed up and the revs dropped to normal idle the idle became erratic and even stalled.
Anybody think this could be similar?
By the way, plunger??
Glyn
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PJDavis
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Re: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« Reply #8 on: Nov 25th, 2015, 9:40pm » |
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Yep, Glyn is right, vacuum problem me now thinks.
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1995 Jaguar XJ6 X300 3.2 (Henley)
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X330 4.0 (Dopey)
1957 Jaguar XK140 USA (converted to RHD, and to have fitted Mk10 420G Engine with BW 65 Auto Trans)
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tiggerlit
Full Member
scorpio ultima auto 2.3 estate r reg
Posts: 164
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Re: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« Reply #9 on: Nov 25th, 2015, 10:33pm » |
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hi thanks for that does anyone know where the t piece is on the 2.3
also the plunger is the bomb
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tiggerlit
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scorpio ultima auto 2.3 estate r reg
Posts: 164
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Re: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« Reply #12 on: Nov 26th, 2015, 11:31pm » |
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hi thanks for the links.
we think we have narrowed the problem down.
it dosent do it in park but when you first put it in drive to drive off it starts like if you are at a juntion so we are thinking of the sensor on the auto gearbox think its the trs sensor what do you think?
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Jonnycab
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Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
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Re: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« Reply #13 on: Nov 27th, 2015, 3:54am » |
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As a former owner of pair of 2.3's (but not for a couple of years now), then I'm going to try & remember the reasons why there would be a lumpy idle....it's still in the archives at the back of my mind somewhere....so here we go...
Obvious things....
.....Idle control valve sticking, faulty or not sealed to the inlet manifold (should be a rubber gasket).
.....EGR pipe to inlet manifold vacuum leak
.....Ignition coils (especially under load)
.....spark plugs
......and that good old reason why every 2.3 goes wrong....the engine wiring loom !....Also known as the 'fuel cut off loom'. These things don't last the years & any evidence of cracked or broken wire insulation anywhere on the loom is a sure sign that your 2.3 will soon become a driveway ornament until it's replaced 
Hope this helps
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GrahamT
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Re: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« Reply #14 on: Nov 27th, 2015, 4:36am » |
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Every 2.3 ?? shush shush now, she might hear you and get upset. I've done loads of jobs on mine, mainly beating the rust and keeping the wheels connected but the engine has never given me any grief at all. Touch wood. 
How about a seized air con compressor?
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Nunnspoet
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Re: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« Reply #15 on: Nov 27th, 2015, 7:53am » |
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Hi all
Yup, with those symptoms, and with regard to my own experiences as above, I suggest removing the Compressor belt, going for a drive around for a whhille to see what happens. Not having the Compressor on line won't do any harm.
Mike
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PJDavis
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Re: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« Reply #16 on: Nov 27th, 2015, 6:16pm » |
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I'm with everything Jonny says! 
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1995 Jaguar XJ6 X300 3.2 (Henley)
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X330 4.0 (Dopey)
1957 Jaguar XK140 USA (converted to RHD, and to have fitted Mk10 420G Engine with BW 65 Auto Trans)
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GrahamT
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Re: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« Reply #17 on: Nov 28th, 2015, 2:06am » |
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If there was any issue with the wiring I would have thought some error codes would be present?
I think the best thing would be to start again with the basic checks and firstly double, triple check the cam timing and do a compression test.
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tiggerlit
Full Member
scorpio ultima auto 2.3 estate r reg
Posts: 164
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Re: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« Reply #18 on: Jan 16th, 2016, 3:54pm » |
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hi guys guess what still got the problem 
we have replaced all the sensors going.
the obd2 reads p0171
where is the pcv valve plz
thanks
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Simmo
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Re: jumping on low revs, garage puzzled
« Reply #19 on: Jan 16th, 2016, 4:42pm » |
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P0171 indicates the system is too lean IE: there is probably an air leak as has been suggested in other posts.
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