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Topic: non starting (Read 2683 times) |
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reedyone
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non starting
« on: Dec 3rd, 2016, 2:09pm » |
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hi, I'm new to the scorpio world but have a 24 valve cosworth 96 estate ultima with 79 thou miles on it, the problem is sometimes when you go to start it, it just turns over and fails to fire. I have discovered if I disconnect the battery for 10 seconds it will then start , there seems no pattern to when it happens and it can do it when hot or cold . it can go days without a problem !
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Simmo
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Re: non starting
« Reply #1 on: Dec 3rd, 2016, 3:06pm » |
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Firstly welcome to the site. 
The most common cause of non starting is the battery is either too small, needs charging, or is worn out. These cars need a lot of power to start them although the engine may turn over as you describe. Have a read of This page.
If you click on the FORD SCORPIO banner at the top of this page it will take you to the front page of the site. There you will see a number of 'option buttons' and if you click on Fault Finder that may also help.
Let us know how you get on as there is a wealth of knowledge on the site and amongst the members who will be pleased to help. 
It might also help to indicate where you are located in case there is anyone local to you who might offer assistance if you need it.
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PJDavis
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2 x 1995 Jag X300 3.2 / 4.0 (Henley) 1957 XK140
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Re: none starting
« Reply #2 on: Dec 3rd, 2016, 11:35pm » |
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Have you ever seen the dials spin around the gauges before you turn the key for starting?
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1995 Jaguar XJ6 X300 3.2 (Henley)
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X330 4.0 (Dopey)
1957 Jaguar XK140 USA (converted to RHD, and to have fitted Mk10 420G Engine with BW 65 Auto Trans)
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reedyone
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Re: none starting
« Reply #3 on: Dec 4th, 2016, 12:40pm » |
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cheers for the reply's, I don't think its a battery fault cos its new and has loads of power, even when it wont start it turns over fast , I don't normally see the gauges spin across there dial but it does happen after I need to disconnect the + lead for 10 seconds so that it will start I have a feeling the alarm is disabling the engine from starting even thought the remote seems to be working ok .
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a900one
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A scorpio is for life not just for christmas
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Re: none starting
« Reply #4 on: Dec 4th, 2016, 1:17pm » |
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When it wont start, have you tried locking and unlocking, and see if it will start then. Also check fuel cutout switch in boot, its near the catch the red button.
Gerald.
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
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Re: none starting
« Reply #6 on: Dec 4th, 2016, 3:09pm » |
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I think in older threads this (starting after battery disconnect) has been caused by poor connection to the EDIS or the shielded wires to it needing replacing.
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Scorpio_Mike
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Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 V6 & 2.8 Sierra XR4i 4x4
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Re: none starting
« Reply #7 on: Dec 4th, 2016, 4:02pm » |
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Sounds like it could be a problem with the insulation on the injector wiring loom causing intermittent shorting.
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reedyone
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Re: none starting
« Reply #8 on: Dec 4th, 2016, 4:49pm » |
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ive checked the fuel cut off and seems ok , EDIS ? this is my first car with computers running things I'm used to old landrovers and ford zephyr's ! I've never owned a 'modern ' car ! what is and where is the EDIS ? I'm ok with standard wiring and mechanics'but I'm not up to speed with all abbreviation's on sensors err yet I'm a fast learner ........ps locking and unlocking has no effect either with the master key or fob.
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Simmo
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Re: none starting
« Reply #9 on: Dec 4th, 2016, 5:09pm » |
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Have a look at This thread. EDIS is mentioned if you scroll through.
The next step is Read this where you will see the Electronics mentioned. 
Then there is More
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reedyone
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Re: none starting
« Reply #10 on: Dec 5th, 2016, 1:50pm » |
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ooh my god ! the space shuttle didn't have this much stuff !its as clear as mud now .....
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Andycan
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Re: none starting
« Reply #11 on: Dec 5th, 2016, 4:01pm » |
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That is what you get with computers running cars lol. if you were closer to me I would have come up and checked it out for you and bought a good loom with me just in case.
Easy one is check all the wires under the bonnet where they go into the connectors/ sensors and if the insulation has gone then you need to check inside the loom and repair them all or at least insulate them.
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reedyone
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Re: none starting
« Reply #12 on: Dec 5th, 2016, 11:12pm » |
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cheers ill do that at the weekend cos I go to work in the dark and get home in the dark ! I don't use it for work anyway cos I still have the discovery 1 for that ! ill keep you all informed with progress !!
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reedyone
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Re: none starting
« Reply #13 on: Dec 11th, 2016, 2:05am » |
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right then what a day ! ive unplugged every connector and plug in sight under the bonnet sprayed switch cleaner in every one . had the battery checked even though its new and that's ok as well . the fuse boxes are all dry but I checked every fuse one by one all ok. tried the car and guess what ? the git just turned over without starting !!! disconnected the battery for 20 seconds and vroom first time ! what is the significance of the dials going round when you turn the ignition on ? mine only do it after I have had to disconnect the batt , normally they don't but the car will still start sometimes ?is something not shutting down when I turn it off ? could it be the alarm ? it triggered twice in half an hour on Friday night for no reason then has been ok since, could the sensor in the ignition switch be faulty ie not 'seeing' the key ?
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Glyn
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Re: none starting
« Reply #14 on: Dec 11th, 2016, 3:12am » |
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It is normal for the dials to spin round when turning the ignition on after disconnecting the battery, as the instrument cluster resets. It will happen if the voltage from the battery falls below a certain level.
The fact that the engine turns over should mean that the system has recognised the key- if you used a correctly cut key that had not been programed to the car, everything would light up but the starter would not operate as I understand it.("some models") but all three of mine are the same.
Have a read of the "Security PATS" article on the main site -pick "about the car, technology, security PATS" Here
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Simmo
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Re: none starting
« Reply #15 on: Dec 11th, 2016, 7:33am » |
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The bonnet switch is a common cause of the alarm going off. It is situated in the slam panel by the bonnet release catch. If you've been opening and shutting the bonnet, as no doubt you have, it may be worth checking it and applying some WD 40 or switch cleaner.
There is also more information about sensors etc. Here.
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reedyone
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Re: none starting
« Reply #16 on: Dec 11th, 2016, 12:57pm » |
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update !I think the alarm and immobiliser are ok as the link says the engine would not crank if it wasn't getting code from key but it does crank. after further investigation ive narrowed it down to disconnecting just the lead to the aux fuse box does the trick , ive doubled checked all fuse's cleaning every one in turn and also all the pins on the relays , I have a sneaky feeling it must be the injection pump relay is sticking off , the next time it wont start ill try too see if that's the case ,I'm open to suggestions !
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reedyone
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Re: none starting
« Reply #17 on: Dec 11th, 2016, 5:25pm » |
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another update, pulling the relays make s no difference ! but something clicks when you pull the power lead off ,put it back on and it starts  strange but the click sounds like its coming from the drivers side mite not even have owt to do with it ? proper puzzler this one !!
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
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Re: none starting
« Reply #18 on: Dec 11th, 2016, 7:36pm » |
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Did you find the EDIS (electronic Distributorless Ignition System) & check it's connection.
On the 2.3 it's not obvious where it is & by the look of this page it's in much the same place on the 24v - item A23 in the second diagram here:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/24vlooms.htm
On the 2.3 it's behind the headlght under the header tank - it might be easier to unbolt the header & move it to one side.
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reedyone
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Re: none starting
« Reply #19 on: Dec 12th, 2016, 8:01pm » |
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thanks for the reply Tompion, I have tried the EDIS and all wires and plug seem to look ok. came n tonight and it started perfect for 7-8 times ,champion I thought but I went out 5 mins ago and it wont start again ! there's no pattern to it sometimes you get one start then no more and other times it starts every time
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