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Topic: Climate Control and all central console fault (Read 1346 times) |
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DavidBE
Full Member
1998 Ghia X 2.9 24V Auto Estate
Posts: 135
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Climate Control and all central console fault
« on: Sep 25th, 2017, 12:42am » |
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I've had an ongoing problem with my 1997 2.3 Ultima Auto for the last year or two. No garages round here have any idea how to fix it. Because I only use the car for short trips and usually only once a week I've been putting up with it, but on Friday the car failed its MOT in a way that'll be very expensive to fix. The problem I'm asking about is not itself an MOT matter, but if I'm to even think of getting all the work done for an MOT pass I really need to be able to fix this too.
The problem started after the battery died (all those short trips never charging it enough), and I had to call the local battery/tyre/exhaust place who came over, used a booster pack to start the car so I could drive to their place, then replaced the battery. This happened once before with no problems, but this time ...
Since the new battery was put in, basically nothing in the central console works. All the climate control controls do nothing (except make a very faint db appear in the two little temperature setting windows while they are pressed), but the climate control system acts as if it were set to HOT at all times - fan on full with with full heat all the time (well - in the summer it's fan on and full heat from just after start to stop; in the winter when I wouldn't mind that and really need demisting, it takes ages before the fan and heat come on, and then they keep cutting in and out). The temp up/down buttons on each side do nothing, the two rotary controls make no difference, the aircon on/off and recirculate conteols do nothing ... except if I press both of them, for as long as I keep them both pressed the fan drops to a slower speed, going back to full on button release. Also the front and rear demister controls do nothing, and even the clock doesn't work. Basically every control in the central console does nothing and I just have full fan, full heat, all the time. The intermittent windscreen wipe died about the same time, but that may be a coincidence (this happened in the summer before last, and with my small car usage it was some time before I needed intermittent wipe to notice it wasn't working).
The battery/tyre/exhaust guys looked into it but have no clue; the garage I use for everything else, just opposite the battery guys also looked but were equally clueless ... and unfortunately the mechanic there who had worked for Ford previously and knew all about the Scorpio electrics turned out to have left and moved away just two months before. The one 'car electrical specialist' in the area who my garage had previously called in for problems they couldn't solve and who could apparently fix anything electrical on anything decided to stop visits, stop answering phone calls and generally went into seclusion too.
I did look on this website and found the routine for putting the climate control into diagnostic mode, generating error messages and resetting it, but it had no effect. The pressing both aircon and recirc buttons as I say just causes the fan to run slower while held and (like any other control) faint db in the temp windows, no diagnostic mode or codes, no system reset. I was going to ask here back when it originally happened and a couple of times since, but couldn't logon and didn't notice the email links to contact the admins - have only just remembered that a typo when registering means my user name for login purposes has an unintended capital letter in it , hence the 'no such user'.
Any ideas if this can be fixed and if so how?
The overall state of the car in all sorts of ways is such that one might wonder why I would even think of paying the cost of the MOT repairs, but it still drives smoothly, and it's still the only car I've found that I can bare to sit in for more than two minutes since a permanent serious back problem arrived in 2007. But given the state of the car in other ways, I just can't justify to myself spending loads of money on a car that just blasts hot air out all the time.
If climate control/central console problem is fixable without huge expense, I'll at least get the full MOT repair quotes and think about it. If not ...
... if not I'll be posting about whether anyone wants a Scorpio for the working parts (and the leather seats still look good).
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PJDavis
Senior Member
2 x 1995 Jag X300 3.2 / 4.0 (Henley) 1957 XK140
Posts: 1474
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Re: Climate Control and all central console fault
« Reply #1 on: Sep 26th, 2017, 6:11pm » |
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Really sorry to hear of your problems. I think we've all suffered with electrical problems with these cars, and (mostly) these problems can be sorted. I would firstly do a 're-set'. Disconnect the battery overnight, (properly) and put it back together 24 hrs later, see if anything changes. It's very hard to get the full story on-line. I wonder whether any of your 'so-called' experts took the fuse-box apart where the battery is, or disturbed it even? This fuse-box MUST be put back completely in-line, or all sorts of problems like you describe happen, it's a very difficult item to service. The wiring behind the dash is such that one accidentally disconnected wire or blown fuse may do much damage. Does the cigar-lighter light-up as it should when the side-lights are on? If not you may have a short-circuit in the cigar-lighter and this can cause many problems. The dash is difficult to remove, but do-able for most if they reference this web-site, so don't despair. I have a 2.3 Ultima, it's my favourite car of all my old cars, for comfort and just 'use-ability' mine will need lots of money spent on it for the next MOT in 12 months, aye, as much as £1000 perhaps, even though it has no-advisories this year! Why? Because it's the best car I have ever owned, I still have a couple of Jaguars, one an XK140, but the Scorpio is the car my wife and I always turn to for comfort and distance. I did Malta and back this year in it putting 7k miles on it, didn't miss a beat, and handles 35 degrees C in Malta. (I have a house in Malta, and an old Mk4 Zodiac which I get spares for here and take them across, illegally) My Scorpio is the only car that I put an 'Accumate' on whilst I'm not using it, the battery does seem to run-down rather quickly if it's not used regularly. The Jaguars can last for a couple of weeks or more, the Scorpio lasts for about 10 days. Do yourself a favour, and preserve your Scorpio under all circumstances! I'm hoping that this thread might allow you to gain a bit more knowledge, Simmo and many others have a lot better handle on where to look than I have, I'm lazy. Good luck, and remember, older cars are a 'Hobby' whether you use them regularly or not, so take your time to fix your old Scorpio up.
Peter
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I love 'Movvy'
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X300 3.2 (Henley)
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X330 4.0 (Dopey)
1957 Jaguar XK140 USA (converted to RHD, and to have fitted Mk10 420G Engine with BW 65 Auto Trans)
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Simmo
Administrator
I'm an OAP !
Posts: 5508
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Re: Climate Control and all central console fault
« Reply #2 on: Sep 26th, 2017, 6:27pm » |
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David. PJ has raised a good point re the fuse boxes. The drivers side one can cause problems if the large connector to it has been disturbed. If you look at This thread it will show you what I mean. Essentially unless the connector is properly located in the lugs shown it can go back, seemingly correctly, but in fact it is one row of pins out with all sorts of issues as a result! There is a saying on here " If it goes back easily it 'ain't right". He is also right about disconnecting the battery for an extended period as often that will clear faults.
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DavidBE
Full Member
1998 Ghia X 2.9 24V Auto Estate
Posts: 135
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Re: Climate Control and all central console fault
« Reply #3 on: Sep 26th, 2017, 11:53pm » |
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Nobody dismantled the fusebox or anything else. There was just the booster pack start of the car, short drive to the battery place, they took out the old battery, put in the new one, I paid and left. I didn't realise there was a problem initially as it was a short drive home, and it was only after several weekly short drives that i realised that something was wrong, then what. After I went back, the battery/tyre guys just looked and checked all the cables were connected to the battery, that they hadn't missed one and left it under the battery or anything, and everything was connected the right way round. Then they just scratched their heads ... as did the guys from my normal garage directly opposite when they wandered over to see what was what. Given my descriptions of what was wrong, they all just confessed ignorance of the kind of knowledge needed to sort it and wouldn't even poke around other than disconnecting/reconnecting the connections to the battery terminals. Nobody so much as took the cover off any of the fuse boxes, let alone dismantled them. I have taken the covers off, tried unplugging/replugging all the relays, and also checked the large connector to the driver side fuse box, but that didn't make a difference.
At the time I was only aware of the climate control panel problems; it was some time before I realised (as it was summer, and I don't drive in the dark anymore) that the intermittent wipe and all the interior cabin lights aren't working either (though the instrument panel illumination is). Something I read today in the fault finding page on this site has me thinking that that probably means the ... what was it ... Timing Control Module (?) is probably fried. And as that happened around the same time as the climate control problem, and the only thing done was changing the battery, I'm wondering if the booster pack start actually fried both the timing control module and the SATC control module ... I'm googling quite a few references to booster packs frying ECUs and things, especially if it's disconnected straight after the start like I think it was with me.
The problem with all this is ... for many, many years (usually for lack of money) I did a lot of fixing my own cars, could generally manage pretty much anything if I had a Haynes or workshop manual, up to single handedly changing the engine in one (all pre-Scorpio). But my back thing has me laid up permanently, mostly only up to leaving the house once a week, and permanent prescription medication messes up my ability to concentrate and my memory can't remember what I've done, or even what I'm trying to do most of the time. Couldn't even get just the climate control panel off today, and looking at the pages on here about removing the fascia, I wouldn't even try now, for all the fascias I've taken off and replaced on assorted cars in years gone by.
While I found the mention in the fault finding page, I haven't managed to work out where this timing control module even is. 
Some power is getting to the climate control panel, as while none of the switches with lights light up, the two little LCD panels do light up and very faintly display ... I thought it was 'db', but actually looking again I think it's just the entire two digits trying to show 88 but some of the elements are fainter than others.
I'll try disconnecting the battery for 24 hours ... not tomorrow, but the day after. Of course the battery isn't very well charged due to my usual once a week only outings to do the shopping. And there's no way i can lift it out and bring it inside to charage it they way I used to be bale to do.
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Simmo
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I'm an OAP !
Posts: 5508
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Re: Climate Control and all central console fault
« Reply #4 on: Sep 27th, 2017, 7:44am » |
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David. The Central Timer Module details are Here.
Not knowing your domestic set up but could you not run an extension lead out to the car, plug the charger in, and charge the battery in situ?
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a900one
Full Member
A scorpio is for life not just for christmas
Posts: 980
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Re: Climate Control and all central console fault
« Reply #5 on: Sep 27th, 2017, 10:15am » |
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Is the battery cover on.
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Climate Control and all central console fault
« Reply #6 on: Sep 27th, 2017, 9:14pm » |
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Have you checked all the fuses? The handbook doesn't always list all of their functions.
I've written a note in my handbook that blown fuse 17 causes:
Heater blower to stay on
No interior lights
No clock
Instruments reset
No warning for in gear.
Not exactly your symptoms but worth checking.
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PJDavis
Senior Member
2 x 1995 Jag X300 3.2 / 4.0 (Henley) 1957 XK140
Posts: 1474
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Re: Climate Control and all central console fault
« Reply #7 on: Sep 27th, 2017, 10:45pm » |
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on Sep 27th, 2017, 10:15am, a900one wrote:
A very valid remark! I wonder if there might be a bit of water in the said area after all the rain everywhere?
David, please remember that one of the most valuable things on these threads is feedback, if and when you try out some or all of our suggestions, you would be advised to report back on the thread to help us help further. This also helps us to help other Scorpio owners with related problems. I think you'll find we never give up!
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I love 'Movvy'
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X300 3.2 (Henley)
1995 Jaguar XJ6 X330 4.0 (Dopey)
1957 Jaguar XK140 USA (converted to RHD, and to have fitted Mk10 420G Engine with BW 65 Auto Trans)
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Simmo
Administrator
I'm an OAP !
Posts: 5508
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Re: Climate Control and all central console fault
« Reply #8 on: Sep 28th, 2017, 8:39am » |
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The comments re the battery prompted me to post This article as it shows how to remove the battery which I know you are unable to do. The important point is that the front panel is easily removed and thus it enables any debris etc. to be cleared from the fuse box area. If there is any water collecting here it can build up and infiltrate the fuse box and even, if the grommet is not correctly fitted in the bulkhead, allow water to enter the area behind the glove box and run over the electronics there. That is usually evidenced by water in the passenger footwell.
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