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Topic: Matrix (Read 4006 times) |
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Tompion
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1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Matrix
« on: Apr 1st, 2009, 1:15am » |
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Fred brought his old matrix along to the Kent meet, I had planned to make an adapter to try flushing the 7 pipes individually.
I have posted before about the twists of plastic that I’d flushed out of my matrix & wondered if the pipes were lined with them.
When I shone a light into this one I could see similar bits of plastic sticking out of some of the holes, so I decide to just cut it open & have a look. Below is a picture of the end of the matrix with some of the return pipes cut off & some of the plastic spirals below.
I was lucky to get these bits out in one piece, they are extremely brittle with age/heat.
There was no lime scale to speak of in this matrix, what you see compacted in the picture below is bits of plastic & rust sludge.
So this probably explains why flushing often only works for a short time & probably why descaling worked for a couple of weeks on mine but ended up worse than before – the lime scale was probably holding it together.
I did manage to get some of the bits out of my matrix with a steam cleaner, & it’s worked fine for the last few months, but I don’t expect it to last.
One of the problems is that the spirals are 7mm dia and are held in place by the plastic feed/return moulding which has 5.5mm holes, so unless the plastic breaks into small pieces it won’t come out.
If any bits do pass through, chances are they’ll go round the engine & come back into the matrix, so back flushing may get rid of those bits.
If anyone’s fitting a new matrix, make sure the engine/radiator are flushed thoroughly in case any bits are in the system.
Dave
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Dave2302
Senior Member
2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: Matrix
« Reply #1 on: Apr 1st, 2009, 2:41am » |
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Hi Dave,
I think we spoke about matrix's's's's (is that the plural lol) before. I too cut my old one open, and yes i too sussed out why the descaler, airline, steam cleaner, reverse flush, even the ultrasonic cleaner wouldn't give a lasting repair.
I reckon they're made this way deliberately.
Did you ever ovn a mk3 / 4 Cortina.
If they ever did block, 10 minutes to change a matrix, 2 self tappers and 2 jubilee clips in a housing on the N/S top of the bulkhead. P O P !!!!
See my post in "Off Topic Subjects" re the current trend in the Motor Trade, let me know yr thoughts.
 Am I right or merely a dangly gangly thing that is part of a MATRIX computer system
Come on ya all seen the film lol...
W.A.Y.T.O.T Subject
Regards Dave 
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Dave "The 'ol Bear" ex Footer !
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Simmo
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I'm an OAP !
Posts: 5508
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Re: Matrix
« Reply #2 on: Apr 1st, 2009, 9:12am » |
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Tompion. You owe me a pint !!!  . For those not at the Kent meet. Dave was handed the matrix and I said, " I bet you have that apart by teatime!" Dave in his usual laid back way said, "No way. I might get round to it sometime if nothing else crops up". I just knew you wouldn't be able to resist the temptation!!  . Great to actually see the 'workings' of one of these units though. Well done Dave.When can we look forward to the 'Tompion' modification!?. . Mike.
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Scorpio_Mike
Senior Member
Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 V6 & 2.8 Sierra XR4i 4x4
Posts: 2354
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Re: Matrix
« Reply #3 on: Apr 1st, 2009, 10:00am » |
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The plastic spirals have obviously been put into the matrix to induce blockage at some point ( when the car is out of warranty ) and thus ensure either an expensive repair job which will benefit a garage, preferably a franchised main dealer - or lead the owner to buy a new car because the job will cost more than the car is worth.
Surely not...
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Matrix
« Reply #4 on: Apr 1st, 2009, 10:24am » |
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I think it’s supposed to improve heat dissipation, possibly older Granada ones if they had them would be aluminium – so wouldn’t have the same problem.
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Scorpio_Mike
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Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 V6 & 2.8 Sierra XR4i 4x4
Posts: 2354
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Re: Matrix
« Reply #5 on: Apr 1st, 2009, 10:27am » |
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Is that a request for an old Granada matrix so you can cut it open and have a look
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Matrix
« Reply #6 on: Apr 1st, 2009, 11:08am » |
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Simmo
Administrator
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Posts: 5508
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Re: Matrix
« Reply #7 on: Apr 1st, 2009, 2:34pm » |
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Go on you know you want to !!. .....Watch this space!! 
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gozz
Senior Member
Been around awhile
Posts: 3475
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Re: Matrix
« Reply #8 on: Apr 1st, 2009, 5:12pm » |
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Tompion.
There are one or two Granada 2 matrices lying around here if your cutting device is poised ! Just gis a nod,and one will hit the Royal Mail,(and so it should)
GOZZ.
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Matrix
« Reply #9 on: Apr 1st, 2009, 7:51pm » |
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on Apr 1st, 2009, 5:12pm, gozz wrote:Tompion.
There are one or two Granada 2 matrices lying around here if your cutting device is poised ! Just gis a nod,and one will hit the Royal Mail,(and so it should)
GOZZ. |
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Get your hacksaw out, you know you want to
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Simmo
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Re: Matrix
« Reply #10 on: Apr 1st, 2009, 8:21pm » |
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Dave, No one wants to deny you the obvious pleasure you'll derive from doing this job and working out the difference between the two !. Now you've cracked everyones ABS problems this has to be your next project!!. Mike.
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Malcolm73
Full Member
Posts: 137
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Re: Matrix
« Reply #11 on: Apr 1st, 2009, 9:16pm » |
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My car is a 24v Ultima.
I have a question and a follow up on servicing the heater matrix.
The question. I have bought from Foray Parts, Trevor Porter a new heater matrix. The label on the box states “Finis code 1041093 Radiator & Seal”.
Within the box is the radiator but no seal. I have been in touch with Trevor and on the drawing he can see no seal.
Can anyone please tell me, is the seal missing or is the label wrong?
Some months ago I attempted to flush my heater matrix. I connected via garden hose a pump, a heated reservoir and exclusively flushed through the in and out pipes of the matrix. The initial results were excellent. Measured air temperatures were well over 60C.
My purchase of a new matrix is because my experiment failed. The air is now cold and the matrix is leaking.
A Dudley garage will hopefully be replacing the matrix on the 16th. April.
As previously mentioned, please let me know about the seal
73’s Malcolm
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Jonnycab
Senior Member
Former owner of 2.3 Ultima Facelift saloon
Posts: 3900
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Re: Matrix
« Reply #12 on: Apr 1st, 2009, 9:58pm » |
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on Apr 1st, 2009, 10:27am, Scorpio_Mike wrote:Is that a request for an old Granada matrix so you can cut it open and have a look
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I've got an old original (blocked) matrix from a MK1 Granny somewhere in the shed....I suppose I could dig it out & do a bit of hacksaw surgery on it
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Matrix
« Reply #13 on: Apr 1st, 2009, 10:14pm » |
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on Apr 1st, 2009, 9:16pm, Malcolm73 wrote:
Can anyone please tell me, is the seal missing or is the label wrong?
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Malcolm
I don't know what this seal is, it looks like there's some mastic on my car where the matrix screws to the housing, perhaps that's what it refers to? I wouldn't have thought it's necessary if that's what it is.
Dave
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Dave2302
Senior Member
2006 Mercedes S55 AMG, Retired Barefoot Waterskier
Posts: 1119
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Re: Matrix
« Reply #14 on: Apr 1st, 2009, 11:44pm » |
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Hi,
When I bought my matrix from FMD, it had a bit of "sponge" glued on the ends to seal air from leaking around the edges.
I assumed this is why it said "Matrix & Seal"
And yes you old cynic Scorpio Mike , (I'm a devout cynic), the spirals are definitely inducing the blockage, and lets face it to book a Scorpio into a main dealer to have a new matrix fitted would write it off !!
I reiterate my mk 3 / 4 Cortina statement, the heaters were efficient to say the least, had no plastic spirals, and were easy to change, so why locate em behind the monster maze dash / wiring enigma, instead of where they were easy to maintain
Answers on a postcard...
Dave
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Snoopy
Administrator
Very old.BAD tempered and missing friends.
Posts: 6278
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Re: Matrix
« Reply #15 on: Apr 2nd, 2009, 8:16am » |
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HERE is my postcard !
Are the spirals a way of reducing flow/pressure to the matrix? They use similar spirals in water pipes where the pressure is to high for certain auto fill valves as in toilet cisterns, not that there is a great flow rate in the cooling system. May be its to keep the flow rate higher around the engine and so prevent hot spots. Aside from all this ALL these things are a system to try to prevent us the General public from doing their own repairs and in some cases as Dave states even the smaller independents.
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Malcolm73
Full Member
Posts: 137
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Re: Matrix
« Reply #16 on: Apr 2nd, 2009, 10:37am » |
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Your comments are appreciated but my car is the 24v Ultima with climate control and I believe that the matrix is different to that on smaller engines.
The new matrix which I have for fitting, measured overall including plastic foam on three edges is 32Cm long, 15Cm wide, and 4Cm deep. There is no foam on the plastic pipe work end.
On the Ford cardboard box are two labels. First label:- “Waermetauscher – Radiator & Seal”
The second label, apart from many other codes, reads “Finis1041093 Radiator & Seal.
My garage does not want to start the job on 16th April without clarification about the seal. I am in touch with Foray Parts – Trevor Porter but we are both hoping for help from this forum.
Regards, Malcolm
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Tompion
Administrator
1997 2.3 Ultima estate.
Posts: 2918
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Re: Matrix
« Reply #18 on: Apr 2nd, 2009, 5:30pm » |
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on Apr 2nd, 2009, 8:16am, Snoopy wrote:
Are the spirals a way of reducing flow/pressure to the matrix? They use similar spirals in water pipes where the pressure is to high for certain auto fill valves as in toilet cisterns, not that there is a great flow rate in the cooling system. |
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I think that may be part of it - possibly increasing pressure in the matrix. I read on an American site that some cars have a restrictor in the hose to reduce flow to prevent erosion & to aid heat dissipation. Maybe if the spirals keep the coolant in contact with the pipes it reduces the risk of cavitation/erosion.
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