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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> OBD Advice
        
(Message started by: allante on Apr 25^th, 2004, 1:19pm)

Title: OBD Advice
Post by allante on Apr 25^th, 2004, 1:19pm

Having recently purchased an OBD lead and having a play around with it, ive found the same faults showing all the time, namely P1131, P1132 and PO132. According to the info this is showing a faulty HO2 sensor (allthough I havent checked the wiring to it yet). Anyone enlighten me on this? is it easy to change? does it need changing? is it expensive? (its the pre cat one). is it only accessible from underneath??
Whilst on the subject, while vehicle explorer seems to work ok, I cant seem to make the dash work, also the graphs dont let me change from 'MAP'
Any ideas?

Andy

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by scorpio_man on Apr 25^th, 2004, 3:10pm

hi there

have a read of
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cats.htm

to start with.
i'll get back to you on the codes and the software stuff later...need to think about it! ;)

regards

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by scorpio_man on Apr 25^th, 2004, 3:52pm

hi there

the codes are from one one of the scale to the other! rich and lean! ???
you need to start the sensor on the data page first, then graph it.

have read of
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/easyguide.htm
and
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/hardcore.htm

Title: . Re: OBD Advice
Post by allante on Apr 25^th, 2004, 8:36pm

Hi
did that, read them i mean. I cleared the codes and started again as i thought it might be codes stuck in memory from before it had a new cat fitted just before i bought it. (dont know if thats right or not but figured it wouldnt hurt). anyhow, all i get now is code P1131 and on the enhanced data im getting 'loop=NO'

which do i pick on the drop down list in the graph page to monitor it?

I sorted the no dash thing, it was just i hadnt got the data page set up to monitor the relevant things, the dash part works ok now

I also noticed that the very last time i tried it i was getting a NO response to oxygen sensor and oxygen sensor heater on the status page but it had been giving YES prior to that, i ran out of time to play around with it at that point so didnt get to the bottom of that one. I did check the lead to the sensor and checked the contacts in the plug were ok, which they appeared to be.

I just re read your message and realised to graph it i have to start it on the data page as you say but what will it come under?

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by scorpio_man on Apr 25^th, 2004, 9:39pm

hi andy

??? to all your questions!
you're asking the wrong person here. i've had the cable for about 6 months now, but hardly ever use it! no time!
you really need one of the experts.
for what it's worth, if you get a code(s), clear it without fixing anything, then it'll come back. something not right with one of your sensors. when you get the software up and running, click on the data tab. then pid possible? then highlight the first thing on the list. near the bottom of the page it will tell you what it is and what it does. don't start it, just use the down arrow and work you way though the list. when you see something of interest, start it. remember to stop it before moving on (slows your pc down), unless you are monitoring it, ie the MAF etc.
have a read of this http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ho2smonitor.htm
as you are finding out, it take a while to figure it all out! if i ever meet eric r, i'll buy him a beer for doing it for us! ;D

need to stop now, my fingers are bleeding with all this typing! ;)

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by allante on Apr 27^th, 2004, 12:11am

yes, i know what you are saying aboutthe code coming back, i just wondered if two of the three codes i had were left over from when it had a duff cat and hadnt cleared, or do they clear themselves once the fault is removed?
Another thing, whats the bit after the fault description that says like 'see P1243' etc? is this a reference to a page in a manual or just another code? curiouser and curiouser..... :-/

hopefully there might be a resident OBD Guru jump in on this thread and enlighten us!

And your fingers bled??? never make a guitarist! ;)

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by TonyS on May 1^st, 2004, 3:20pm

Hi,

Whats the month of manufacture (check the VIN) as this sounds like a loom fault? If prior to June 1996 then it's possible you have got depolymerisation of the insulation of the wires in the loom and are getting signal shorts (the HO2S signal is +0.1->0.9 volts

HO2S 11 is a fueling sensor so it's important you sort this out before you do any damage to the Bank 1 CAT.

Why was the CAT replaced and was it Bank 1? Check the connector to the sensor, make sure it's a good fit and everything is clean and assembled properly.

These codes are part of the result from the component monitor process and are a result of lack of switching (the lean/rich statement is the general outcome of the monitor).

Bank 1 is drivers side.

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by allante on May 2^nd, 2004, 1:30pm

Hi
Month is feb 96, Ive tried it a couple more times since and the P1132 code has disappeared now. All im left with is the P1131 code and PO132, this has done away with the conflicting rich and lean thing and just indicates lean. the 0132 indicates high voltage, is this the voltage you are talking about? Im still getting no open loop condition. Which PID is it to measure the voltage?
As for the cat, i dont know why it was replaced but he did say it was the left one, im assuming left as in nearside not as you look at the car whereas this fault is in the offside of the engine yes?

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by TonyS on May 2^nd, 2004, 2:50pm

Nearside (for UK) is Bank 2. DTCs relate to Bank 1 sensor 1 (pre cat - fueling).

Before you go any further look at the wiring loom down from the big rubber grommet on the firewall passenger side all down past the CAT heat shields and down towards the front of the car.

Check for brittleness, cracks in the outer covering, evidence that repairs have been made. Then if you feel up to it peel back some of the outer covering and look at the wires inside, with specific attention to the smaller wires. If you will see cracks and even copper exposed then this needs to be addressed before it gets worse.

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by allante on May 3^rd, 2004, 3:14pm

yep, checked all that. wiring isnt brittle at all anywhere along its length had a look under the insulation at points nearest to the cat and wire is still as new. also checked the connector to the sensor and i sclean and bright........next! :)

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by scorpio_man on May 3^rd, 2004, 3:27pm

hi there

what about http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ho2smonitor.htm

you'd be better of posting to the mailing list (eric, mark etc). you might get a faster responce.

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by Eric_R on May 9^th, 2004, 10:45pm

Allante,
Sorry, I've just picked up this thread. Shouldn't this be on the 'Problems'?

You have collected three DTCs which are explained on the HO2S Monitor page http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ho2smonitor.htm and if you check the http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/codes.htm page you'll see that they all relate to the same sensor - HO2S11, which is the Upstream lamda sensor on Bank 1, (drivers side).

You have cleared the codes in case they are old from before the CAT was changed (they would clear naturally after 3 clear runs anyway) - but if a DTC returns it needs investigating.

P1131 means that the 11 sensor was indicating well into the Lean for too long - in other words, the bank was running far too rich, or the sensor is duff.
P1132 means exactly the opposite - the bank was running too lean !!
P0132 is a generic OBD code that shows the 11 sensor with too high a voltage - this further indicates that the sensor may be duff - or it could be a problem with the wiring.

We really need to watch this sensor. With the engine running, connect with the OBD, then go to DATA page, and select
RPM
MPH
HO2S11, 12 (and 21 and 22 if you have the 24V) and LTFT1 (and LTFT2 if a 24V)
and then take a drive round the block with the scan running. (Make sure the reconnect box is ticked on the Scan page) NOTE: Don't just click on PID All and read everything - the refresh rate is far too low.
Then STOP the scan and when prompted name the file allante01.

Then zip the three scan files together (.dat .txt and .log) and mail them to me and I'll have a look.

If you read through http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/obdindetail.htm it should all be clearer to you.

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by allante on May 10^th, 2004, 11:52am

Eric, have pm'd you. file can be found at http://www.anyboard.net/autos/cars/scorpio/posts/117.html
Hope I done this right!

Thanks

Andy

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by Eric_R on May 10^th, 2004, 8:07pm

Andy,
Yep, that's perfect.
I'll get back to you :)

EricR

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by Eric_R on May 11^th, 2004, 12:03pm

Andy,
Looked through the scan as per.
'very interesting' as the anorak says through clenched teeth, lol

I've put two graphs up on http://www.anyboard.net/autos/cars/scorpio/posts/119.html and 120 for your delectation and delight. There are some other graphs too and I can feel a new page coming on - but look at the first, allante01. This shows the red trace (HO2S11 the upstream driver's side lamda sensor) has gone right off the scale: showing an outlandish voltage - 1.275 volts. There's your P0132 - OBD has detected the voltage from the HO2S sensor much too high. It also detected that the HO2S was failing to switch while High - so you got DTC P1132
The next graph I've put up is allante03.jpg. This shows the same red trace flatlining right across the page. Interestingly, you can see the second upper trace, blue - downstream driver's side HO2S12 - climbing and holding at high and then falling away again. This shows the PCM trying to 'shock' the 11 sensor into switching by enriching the mixture. It fails and a DTC is recorded for failing to switch lean, P1131 . This is all on http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ho2smonitor.htm btw.

Checking the LTFT at the same time confirms that there are no negative or positive FT concerns, so we can rule out the MAF or the fuel rail regulator - and provided you've checked the wiring carefully and the connector to the upstream sensor and this is okay it is fairly conclusive that this sensor needs changing.

If you look at the lower trace you'll see that the downstream sensor on the passenger side is switching a fair bit, so the nearside catalyst is aging. This indicates that the new catalyst you mentioned earlier was installed on the drivers side, Bank 1. In this case it may be that a misfire in the past has damaged the sensors on Bank1 at the same time as the catalyst - or they simply got old.

Check the wiring and connection carefully and if they are okay change the upstream sensor first. It may be that you'll need a downstream one too, but let the HO2S monitor report it first because it is not used for fuelling and the catalyst is new anyway.

EricR

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by allante on May 11^th, 2004, 1:00pm

Many Many thanks Eric. very interesting, its easier to understand when you look at it in small bits with th eexplanation to go with it. I will order a sensor and let yo uknow wha thappens once ive fitted it. (think i read somewhere the front is nla and you have to buy a rear and change the wire? anyway, i'll see
thanks again m8

Andy

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by Eric_R on May 11^th, 2004, 9:49pm

Andy,
yes that's right. Unless you get older stock, the front lamda sensors have been deleted and you will get the post-cat sensors instead. They're exactly the same, but you'll have to cut and solder the wires.
NOTE these wires need to be properly soldered because the signal voltage is very small, (Less than 1 volt) and you must not get any signal loss through poor connections.
Space is tight in there. Some owners have actually cut the handle of a suitable spanner bac k to get a purchase on the sensor.

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by allante on May 12^th, 2004, 6:34am

spoke to fmd, they said sensors were still available and hadnt heard of using back ones for the front. didnt have them in stock but said should get them in a couple of days. about £100. they call them HEGO sensors though. sound about right?

Andy

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by Eric_R on May 13^th, 2004, 12:48am

Yep, about right.
But we have been told at least twice that the upstream sensors have been deleted. Never mind, if they can find them.

Did you not try http://www.fordpartsuk.com/ or http://www.cats-direct-shop.co.uk/

EricR

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by allante on May 13^th, 2004, 5:16am

No I must admit I didnt try anywhere else, my local fmd is literally just round the corner and they are always pretty good. (at getting parts I mean, not mending Cosworths!) Plus I think the guy in parts finds me a bit outspoken at times and tends to give me discount to keep me sweet!!

Title: Re: OBD Advice
Post by allante on May 14^th, 2004, 3:05pm

Eric
got the sensor this morning, fitted it (easy to get at..NOT!). and all codes are gone. looks like it did the trick, many many thanks, youre a star!
It looked like the old one had been fitted with mole grips as all one side of it was crushed, i wonder if they did that when they fitted the cat and it hasnt worked since.
I'll run it a week or so and then scan it again to make sure but ive driven it quite a bit today and they havent reappeared.

Thanks again M8

Andy