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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> Automatic  for the people !  
        
(Message started by: mr._floppy on Nov 14^th, 2004, 11:48pm)

Title: Automatic for the people !
Post by mr._floppy on Nov 14^th, 2004, 11:48pm

As a new poster and recent Scorpio owner ( lovely low mileage Auto 2.0 16v Ultima ) can I test whether you Scorpio bods are as nasty and snooty as they say down the Ford Mondeo board. Actually, it's a question that is pertinent to all automatics, when idling at traffic lights for 1-2 minutes is it better for the auto box to slip it into neutral/ park or just keep it in Drive with your foot on the brake , or does it make no odds ?

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by simonmd on Nov 15^th, 2004, 6:55am

The Mondeo people are just jealous! ;)

No, I don't think a couple on mins would hurt, in fact in normal town traffic constantly switching from Drive to Neutral would cause more wear and tear than is nesseccary. I've always been told not to leave an auto in gear for more than 10 mins without moveing.

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by craig on Nov 15^th, 2004, 6:58am

nasty and snooty ???
ford mondeo board >:(
;D ;D ;D ;D
to my knowledge,i dont think it makes a difference,although when my wife was learning to drive,in those situations,she was told to always make the car "safe" (neutral and handbrake),but myself,i always leave the car idling in gear for short pauses,but for longer stops (traffic jams,roadworks etc.etc.),i tend to put the car in park,just so i can then basically relax a little......
but thats opinion,dont think "technically" it matters....

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by phuturephantasy on Nov 15^th, 2004, 8:22am

Hello Mr_Floppy (love the name, won't ask how you got it - lol).

I leave mine in drive unless I'm actually getting out of the car and would think that constantly shifting from drive to park/neutral every time you come to a set of lights etc would put a lot more wear on the gearbox than just leaving it in gear. My gearbos is still silky smooth after 130,000 miles (30,000 by myself in the last 8 mths)

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by Vulcan on Nov 15^th, 2004, 8:25am

I raised this exact question a few months back before we lost all those posts, the consensus of opinion at that time seemed to be that it was ok to stay in drive for the short stops up to a few minutes but if you were to stop in heavy traffic for longer than that then to drop to neutral to "rest" the box.
I took this advice as read and do just that.

regards

George

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by mr._floppy on Nov 15^th, 2004, 10:53am

Wow, 130 000 miles with the same autobox ! I've always been told by friends in the auto trade to avoid autos cos they conk out after 60K. I don't care , I can't be bothered with clutches and gearsticks. These days cars have no less than 6 gears. Press the gas and let the car do the work .

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by johnv on Nov 20^th, 2004, 12:12pm

Well my 1996 "N" reg as done 137,000 miles now and auto box is still the same as my others with 60,000 miles or less on the speedos.
What people say about don't buy a car with an auto-box because it costs so much when they do go wrong. They forget to tell you about how much it would have cost in clutch replacements, over the life of an auto-box.
So, off load the cost of parts and labour from the price of a new auto box and the auto box comes more into cost effective.
Any way, I am told by Ford that to supply and fit a brand new auto box would be about £2600. but you can go non Ford Dealers for recondition or yours overhauled for say £1000 to £1500.
I would not consider changing gear by pushing a pedal down and having to take one hand off the steering wheel to move a lever each and every time you need another gear.

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by nick on Nov 20^th, 2004, 1:46pm

There are different view by different people, i never drop out of drive at traffic lights, but I know people who do, I gear down using the box, others dont, i never use the handbrake, others do, no one is right and the other wrong, its just down to you.

BTW my cos 1998 has 137,000 miles and no bother
My 2.3 1998 has 120,000 no bother.

Its just you pays your money and takes your chance

Nic

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by geraghtyg on Nov 20^th, 2004, 4:02pm

I'm really cheap whilst driving. If I see a red light way ahead or a level crossing with gates down, I put the box into neutral and coast! Still going fine at 92,000 miles

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by scorpio_man on Nov 20^th, 2004, 6:35pm

hi there

you don't really want to do that to an auto. :o see http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/handbook112.gif
about max speed and distance while towing (same idea). i go along with anymore than say, 5 min sitting, then i'll pop it into to park.

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by Vulcan on Nov 20^th, 2004, 8:03pm

Surely if you needed to engage drive in any emergency then with the vehicle in neutral and moving that would not be possible.. :o you would have to come to a complete stop.

I haven't given it a thought up till now but even just thinking about engaging drive from neutral when moving shouts major damage to me... I know you say it's when coasting to a stop but you never know what may happen on todays roads.

Anyway I tend to get better fuel economy when driving the car a bit hard, the fuel economy drops if I drive it like a hearse ;D and at tick over in traffic I can usually see the miles dropping off by the minute.

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by JohnJ on Nov 20^th, 2004, 11:05pm

Did you no that coasting down a hill, the car has got to burn petrol to keep the engine turning!

If you leave the car in gear it will burn nothing! the gearbox and weight of the car turns the engine. think about it.

Dont coast....you actualy maybe burning more! ;D

JJ

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by geraghtyg on Nov 22^nd, 2004, 2:25am

So John. Even if the revs are say 500 revs lowers when coasting in neutral rather than in gear, are you saying that that car will still use less fuel if it is in gear? I would have thought that when coasting down a hill in neutral would mean that the engine would simply idle at 750RPM or whatever it idles at as the engine is not doing anything. I'm not saying I'm right or anything but my thoughts obviously think differently. Hope to hear froma reply from you soon although I shall be heading off to bed VERY soon - Work in the morning and it's now 02:38 - I should not be awake now.

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by Vulcan on Nov 22^nd, 2004, 7:47am

This was actually mentioned yesterday on the Top Gear marathon on UK TV. Apparently when slowing down with the drive engaged the car uses exactly NOTHING... the engine is kept turning by the road wheels turning the engine. When coasting in neutral the car actually has to inject fuel to keep the engine running.
Ergo coasting = fuel use
Deceleration = 0 fuel use.

This is how I understood it.

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by JohnJ on Nov 22^nd, 2004, 8:20am

Yes valcun and thats how I understand it, my car when going down a hill does not idle and 750rpm its always higher.

But thats a definate answer for a manual gearbox not sure if the same can be said for auto but I cant think why it would'nt after all my car does perform engine breaking and the only way this can be performed is the momentum being power is tranfered through the driveshaft up into the engine so that the engine resists the forward motion carried by the car, If you where to burn petrol the car would definatly speed up down hill.

That is as best as I can explain it,

Theres my waffle for this month! ;D

JJ

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by Robby on Nov 22^nd, 2004, 9:04am

Most cars - and I assume the scorpio too - have a fuel cut off switch for use when coasting in gear. Even with a torque converter instead of a clutch, there should be enough force from the wheels to keep the engine turning.

Alternatively, just pop your computer onto instant mpg and watch it while you coast in gear - 99.99 mpg, the most the computer can display.

Also bad for autoboxes to be moved much in neutral - I assume the power for the pump comes from the engine power input end, rather than just from the autbox being in motion.

On a vague aside, what sort of mileage do you guys get the AFT changed at? On my old mercedes board they recommended changing it every 36k. Does the scorpio still have a drain plug on the torque converter?

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by Snoopy on Nov 22^nd, 2004, 10:05am

The Scorpio unfortunately does NOT have a drain plug on the gear box you can get the fluid removed by proffesional quite easily or take the sump off and change the auto box filter at the same time and refill but it is only possible to change about 50% of the fluid .... as some stays in the torque converter... Best way change the fluid and filter once and then do it again say in three months that way about 75% changed....

Messy job if you have to do it on your back though....

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by martin_rowe on Nov 23^rd, 2004, 9:21am

would have top check, but I think fuel injection is cut off on over run on my 24v above 1500 rpm, its a fuel saving thing, certain Ive seen it when out data logging with my lap top.

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by Elfasto on Nov 25^th, 2004, 1:43pm

If you're worried about overheating the oil with the car still in Drive and you're stopped for awhile (which shouldn't ever happen anyways) then I would get a larger Transmission cooler installed, if you have the room.

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by TonyS on Nov 28^th, 2004, 10:49am

.. or if stopped for more than 2 minutes turn off the engine :-/

I've been in several motorway tailbacks where it was clear it's better for your wallet and the environment to turn off .. always assuming you'r sure the car will restart.

Title: Re: Automatic for the people !
Post by Pier on Nov 4^th, 2005, 5:54pm

The way i know it its better to run Ford automatics properly and nice when to heavy driving wear out Ford boxes in now time without the right service.Realy anoyed wath i have to unscrew the hole bottom on my transmission when they didnt make any drain plug on my gearbox.Tried one time to suck it from the top of the engine and it worked pritty good but still i prefer to do it the old way.One of my friends have changed his automatic two times now when he was thinking there was something wrong with the older ones when they never changed from 3 to 4 gear.It wasnt,the fault was in the relay who gives the comand to change from 3 to 4 gear.The 1,2 and 3 are controlled by the engine!.