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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> Wheel alignment
        
(Message started by: neil_goulsbra on Dec 28^th, 2004, 11:26am)

Title: Wheel alignment
Post by neil_goulsbra on Dec 28^th, 2004, 11:26am

I drive a M reg 2.5 TD Estate, and need to set the front wheel alignment, Does anyone know the settings and the loading of the car if required? Thankyou in advance for your help

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by johnv on Dec 28^th, 2004, 2:46pm

they charge £23 at ATS for four wheel tracking. I seem to remember that I heard one fitter call to the other -2 on scorpios, but I not a person who understands that.
I do my own. by trial and error. If the tyre is wearing one way just turn the nut the other way a bit of a time to compensate.
You just watch everyone crawl out from underneath their scorpios and start bawling at me.
But whats the point in having a old car done over 100,000 miles or more which no doubt has a little wear in other components set up to the book if any wear alters this setting.

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by Richard on Dec 28^th, 2004, 3:50pm

Because that wear should be picked up on at your MOT and if it aint then you work it out, Once a tyre starts to wear you can't do anything about it, So you should have it done professionally.
Can't see how you can do all four wheels either as there is no adjustment on the rear ??? that i am aware of.

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by mr._floppy on Dec 28^th, 2004, 4:51pm

Yeah, I'm with you johnv , your average Kwik-fit or local garage grease monkey knows very little about steering angles or king-pin geometry or the benefits of castor and camber angles regarding tyre wear . It's something they advertise that they can do ( and charge heftily for ) but very rarely can , and your car comes back just as bad, but now your steering wheel is off-centre.

In my judgement you'd be better off having a go yourself and saving £28.

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by johnv on Dec 28^th, 2004, 4:59pm

four wheel tracking does not mean that you adjust the rear wheels. I will leave it to others to explain.
some garages use a plastic plate that you drive up onto, useless. completely useless.
but who are the professionals.
Like my main large Ford Dealer does not have four wheel tracking. The AA service centre does not have four wheel tracking.
But my local ATS tyre place does. They sort of hook equipment over the top of the four tyres.

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by howiedintheplace on Dec 28^th, 2004, 5:07pm

Hi All
Sorry Richard gota disagree with you here. About 6 years ago I believed as you the best way to adjust the tracking was to get the guys with the fancy mirrors or laser beams to do it, the so called pro's. How ever after getting 5 different garages to adjust an old lowered Sierra Cosworth I found the only way was to do it myself. They cost me 4 tyres which at £100 each (Yokohama A510's) was really pushing my patients.
Tried to tell me it was because it was lowered, worn suspension & all the usual crap, they couldn't even agree on the settings for the car, anyway after working out how it all works I adjusted it in small amounts & hey presto the uneven wear was sorted & I had no problems for over a year. I now do all my cars & the families the same with no probs. I just check the tyres for wear each month & adjust accordingly.
4 wheel tracking does not mean what you think as ATS only line up the front wheels to the back with lasers & do not adjust the backs.
The backs are not adjustable anyway.
The setting is 1 - 3 mm toe in unladen, which is only of use if you have your own tracking gauges.
The pro's do get it right most of the time by the way, it's just an easy job when you know how.

Richard how’s them door builds coming along . . . .

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by Richard on Dec 28^th, 2004, 5:09pm

I think i know what you mean with the four wheel tracking and yes it is very difficult to find a decent place where you will get someone that knows what they are doing, Just because you have some spotty faced kid that has passed some useless exam this does not make him an expert, this takes many years out there doing the job that you really need an interest in otherwise you don't get that expert.

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by Richard on Dec 28^th, 2004, 5:15pm

Hi Dave,
See my other post, The door builds are on hold at the moment but will start them in the new year i hope.
Hope you had a good Christmas and hope you have a good New Year.

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by johnv on Dec 28^th, 2004, 5:45pm

Trust Mr. Floppy to bring up that dirty word, like Kwik-fit. I don't know who I hate most, my local Ford main dealer or Kwik-fit.
But Mr.Floppy right to bring these matter up so that we can all be prepared to stop us getting ripped off.
So what am I ranting on about now.
First all all, have I got the right people. Kwik-fit. Those prats that used to dance around in blue overhauls in T.V. adverts. (You can't get better than a quick-fit fitter)
Well this is what they done to me. over a period of time not all at the same time.
Well I was in business, and had Transit vans, long wheel-bases. I had no time to work on vehicles, you only earn money when you are working, when you are self-employed.
No 1. Left van to have new battery fitted while i went for a sandwich so that I could get to work after.
Arrived back to find that they had moved the securing clamp in alot to fit a little toy type battery. Told then get it off and fit a real one the same amps as the old one.
No 2. Left van to have a complete exhaust fitted. checked on phone before-hand have you got one in stock. O yes sir, bring in your van and we will do it straight away.
Left van, went back and did not check, (I mean what can go wrong with a new exhaust).
Drove off, with 1 mile it fell down onto the back axle.
They had not got the right exhaust so got a collection of parts. I think they where trying to make a short wheel base fit a long wheel base. and having problems, they left it to work on other vehicles, then someone wanted the ramp so reverse the van off then someone decided because it had been taken off the ramp it was ready.
Then when I went back they was going to take the geniune Ford hanging brackets off van and was going to heat them up and bend them to fit further back and take off other brackets and re-position these by drilling holes in the floor to re-mount these.
Out come, got in van and drove off somewhere else and got new exhaust fitted there and them with a three year guarantee.
No 3. Track-rod end. one on the drop-down link. Fitted one of these and I could not see the speedo when driving straight. because they just bunged it on. so that the thick spokes pointed upwards instead of being across like it was when I dropped off the van.
In the old days I used to count the number of turns I undid trackrods ends and put them back the same amount. (yes I know it might be a little non -professional but it always seemed to work for me).
Well I could go on and on and on, but I feel you got the message.
Sorry to any Kwik-fit fitters but I would not go near one of these now. Well, I mean you stand so much and that's it.
I oftened wondered this. how many people on this site would take their car into a fast fit outlet and let them carry out work on the brakes, steering etc apart from tyres, batteries and exhausts.
I would not for sure.

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by mr._floppy on Dec 28^th, 2004, 6:11pm

This is the kick Kwik-Fit thread , come in and make yourself comfy.

It's the mind -bogglingly insulting cheek of charging £4 to dispose of OUR old tyres that I like , cos we all know they flog them to the Asian /Indian tyre market , where tyre safety rules don't exist ( ask for your old tyres to be returned to you and save some money ).

I remember asking one Kwik-Fit technician early one Sunday morning could he take all my alloys off and balance them as I was having trouble with speed related body vibration. Quick as a flash , he told me that balancing alloys was impossible cos the lead weights wouldn't stick to the alloys, and you'd be lucky to get to the end of the road end before the b****rs fell off !. I told him 50% of road cars are fitted with alloys, to no avail , it was obvious that he just couldn't be a***d doing it , and went back to his workmates to continue with the disscussion of their previous nights drinking exploits.

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by johnv on Dec 28^th, 2004, 6:11pm

hey Mr. Howiedintheplace. that's what I said din'nt I. but you say it so much better.
The main point is don't go in like a bull in a china shop turning spanners round and round like crasy. Just a bit at a time.
So when did you pinch my idea of checking every month. I keep a post card in my car and each month I record the tread depth on inner and outter tread on all wheels. (No don't be daft you don't need to do the spare because that can't wear not being on the car).
So you see soon enough, if you are getting un-even wear and can deal with it before you wear out tyres which will alway be over a £100 each for the size 225.
So if you are saying 1-3 that's means that at -2 they where sort of going for the middle of the setting.
My local ATS has been re-staffed and spruced up. I was impressed at how much better it is now. and it only 2 miles from me so I going to try them next, well for simple jobs. I mean they are now doing MOT and full services etc, etc.
If I need Ford repairs I will go into Birmingham at either Meteor Ford or Cowley Ford. or indeed in Stratford -upon-Avon there is Arden Ford

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by johnv on Dec 28^th, 2004, 6:21pm

Why have I got that feeling that this thread just might break all the records for being the longest ever on this site.
Hey Mr. Foppy, do you mean £4 for four tyres, as in £1 per tyre. you surely not going to tell me £4 per tyre making £16.
I never had that, happen to me, that's why is so important that we all let each other know what's going on to save being ripped off.
I just wonder if some outlets put such a charge in with the price to save upsetting customers by telling them.
But when I used to go to my Ford main dealer they used to charge £4.50 plus vat to dispose of your old engine oil.

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by johnv on Dec 28^th, 2004, 6:25pm

and don't forget the monitor vavle caps, you can get four for £11 now plus £1 for postage. no vat. extra.
I no longer un-screw vavle caps and push on gauges and refit vavle caps. I just walk around as fast as you can walk, job done.

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by neil_goulsbra on Dec 28^th, 2004, 6:50pm

Guys, Thanks for the replys but all I need to know is the settings. I am a Master Technician at a Land Rover Dealer and know the difference between 2 & 4 wheel alignment. I use 4 wheel lazer alignment all day long so have no intention of paying some one to do it for me. I know all about thrust angles, rear toe, centre lines, camber, caster, k.p.i., individual toe and combined toe. As for guessing, with out getting to technical, getting the Front wheen alignment wrong around the centre line of the vehicle will cause high speed instability also it will cause tyre wear. Once this is noticable the damage is done. This is because the inside or outside inch of tread will not be on the tarmac so you have reduced grip on road around hi speed corners i.e. hi speed bends on motorways. So as I said thanks Guys but all I need to know is the actuall readings ;) Oh yeah Happy New Year to you all

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by howiedintheplace on Dec 28^th, 2004, 10:54pm

Sorry Neil
Did not realise you knew what you was doing!

http://www.anyboard.net/autos/cars/scorpio/uploads/Toe_001.jpg

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by howiedintheplace on Dec 28^th, 2004, 11:05pm

John
Yep me & you appear to be on the same wave length.
Have not had to throw away tyres because of uneven wear for years now, well not the ones I have looked after. Just a quick look once a month is all it takes as you know. Your not that far from me either?

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by Snoopy on Dec 29^th, 2004, 8:19am

its all here

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/suspension/FSuspSpecs.pdf

the full manual for the car is here
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/index2.htm

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by neil_goulsbra on Jan 6^th, 2005, 6:37pm

Cheers Dave thanks for the advice. :D

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by johnv on Jan 6^th, 2005, 7:35pm

Hi to Mr. Howiedintheplace. So are you going to tell me where you have your big repairs done that you can't do yourself. I mean repairs as apart from Servicing.
I have been on the net. ask jeeves and input ford repairs, in midlands and it has given me a list which i have printed out.
Another point on track-rod ends and any type of threaded shafts. I alway keep the thread clean with wayol or the like, don't let them crode up with rust/dirt etc.

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by howiedintheplace on Jan 12^th, 2005, 12:13am

Johnv

Well I wouldn't trust any car of mine to anybody but a mate of mine & thats rare as I have a go at anything.
Rebuilt my first engine when I was 13 & so on.
All self taught or learnt off pro guys I know.
Bodywork, mechanics & one off projects, whatever.

People usally bring cars to me that main dealers can't fix or seem to be lost with. There is some real idiots working in them garages & others who are spot on!
Couldn't recommend anyone near by as don't deal with anyone. Just don't go to halfords as I am always looking at cars they have fixed, NOT.

Title: Re: Wheel alignment
Post by johnv on Jan 12^th, 2005, 7:00am

Hi to Howiedintheplace.
That about Halfords. I already learn that lesson years ago. AND neaver take your car to Halfords for an MOT.
I don't know if this is across the country or just in Coventry but Halfords (just the service dept not the shops) has been handed over to the AA but dispite the fact that they are dressed in AA overhauls they are the old Halfords staff.
But now The AA are handing over to is it National or Nationwide Service people.
I had a letter from the AA on that.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
In my younger days I used to have two Vaxhall Crest's, real lovely cars, on one the main bearing went, so I rebuilt that engine from scratch.
You can do these sort of jobs when you are young, but those days have past me by.
Still on ask jeeves site, I got a large list of Ford garages in the midlands, some I did not know existed.