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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
        
(Message started by: gaz01gaz on Apr 29^th, 2005, 12:56am)

Title: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by gaz01gaz on Apr 29^th, 2005, 12:56am

please can anyone say if 2.0 and 2.3 use same cylinder head ?????

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by gaz01gaz on Apr 29^th, 2005, 10:30pm

surely someone knows.please????????

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by SaveTheNight on May 1^st, 2005, 12:12pm

d'ya know Gaz .. I don't know the answer to this !! .... effectively it's the same engine with a different stroke so the 16v should be .. but I don't think it is .. check with Snoops for a finis ... even then it may not show .. regards ...... STN

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by scorpio_man on May 1^st, 2005, 1:47pm

hi there

i think it will be different. the 2.3 has balancer shafts, so might have different bolt holes and oil ways. the bottom seems to be the same. :-/

is this any good?
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/technical.htm

hth

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by SaveTheNight on May 1^st, 2005, 2:50pm

balance shafts are in the bottom end though Andy .. and shouldn't be a problem ? .. I would be more inclined to check a head gasket finis .. and valve seat angles etc ... daft isn't it ... we should know !! ... when is the head available Gaz ? ..for eyeballing .... cheers .... STN

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by scorpio_man on May 1^st, 2005, 3:02pm

hi bill

thanks for that. wasn't quite sure where they were. i knew the engine was taller because of them. it's a strange one. normally it's a 2.0 16v and a rs2000 escort engine! one thing (should be)different is the valve timing. think that's on the data page.

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by gaz01gaz on May 1^st, 2005, 4:44pm

now thats got you all thinking ???? he !he! the problem is i have just got a 1997 2.3 est cheap (£250) but engine has been cooked,the head gasket had been blown between the cylinders and water ways so in effect i had avery large kettle,cup of tea anyone ? i have taken a chance and removed the head to go for a pressure test and if o.k to be skimmed and refitted.the problem arrises if the engineers say the head is bo*^+~ed......recon heads are £350 + vat upwards,not worth it ..so just a thought about the 2.0 head being the same....who might know ???

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by scorpio_man on May 1^st, 2005, 5:10pm

hi there

i've just checked an online place and the head gasket are listed differently.....

2.0 nsd engine 94> ch7360
2.0 n8b engine 94-94 ch0326
2.0 n3a engine 94-98 ch3525
2.3 y5a engine 96-98 ch5542

i think this is from a ford supplier, but i'm not sure.
by the look of it, one is for the 8 valve engine (nsd?), one for the granada (n8b?) and one for the 16 valve (n3a?) does anyone know the engine codes? :-/

hth

update...engine codes appear to be correct.

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by gaz01gaz on May 2^nd, 2005, 12:26am

sorry for sounding a little dim but what does this conclude????gaz

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by SaveTheNight on May 2^nd, 2005, 8:04am

it doesn't gaz ! ... at the moment it seems highly unlikely .. but possible .. maybe.. or not .. hmm .. STN

seriously though .. it may be an eyeball and measurement job .. or Eric may probably know ..but then again so should I !! ...

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by Snoopy on May 2^nd, 2005, 8:25am

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/dohc23head2.gif
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/dohc2023head2.gif

From the information that I have. I am like most people unable to determine if the heads are the same. They do physically look the same in the documentation that I have, but for obvious reasons have different part numbers.

I would have thought the only way to actually check is to compare them if you can get your hands on one of each.

The 2.0 16v does appear to use the same head as the 2.3 16 v but that is all I can say .

have a look yourself and decide., and BTW good luck in your quest.

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by SaveTheNight on May 2^nd, 2005, 8:29am

2.3 ........

Cylinder head with valve seat inserts*
Cast mark 2.3
Upper correction angle. inlet valve (production) ø30
Upper correction angle. exhaust valve (production) ø 30
Valve seat angle ø44.5 - 45.5
Valve seat width. inlet mm 1.18 - 2.02
Valve seat width. exhaust mm 1.35 - 2.19
Lower correction angle. inlet (production) ø75
Lower correction angle. exhaust (production) ø75
Valve stem guide diameter. inlet mm 7.063 - 7.094
Valve stem guide diameter. exhaust mm 7.063 - 7.094
Camshaft bearing parent bore diameter mm 26.00 - 26.03
Camshafts
Number of camshaft bearings. each camshaft 5
Drive Single roller chain
Camshaft end float mm 0.02 - 0.26
Cam lift. inlet mm 9.4
Cam lift. exhaust mm 8.75
Valve timing. inlet opens BTDC øCS9
Valve timing. inlet closes ABDC øCS51
Valve timing. exhaust opens BBDC øCS48
Valve timing. exhaust closes ATDC øCS12
Camshaft bearing journal diameter mm 25.96 - 25.98
Valves
Valve timing DOHC
Valve clearance adjustment Hydraulic tappets
Hydraulic tappet diameter mm 30
Hydraulic tappet clearance in housing mm 0.025 - 0.071
Inlet valve length mm 111.67 - 112.13
Exhaust valve length mm 111.37 - 111.83
Valve head diameter. inlet mm 33.5
Valve head diameter. exhaust mm 30.0
Valve stem diameter. standard inlet mm 7.025 - 7.043
Valve stem diameter. standard exhaust mm 6.999 - 7.017
Valve stem diameter. oversize 0.2 inlet mm 7.225 - 7.243
Valve stem diameter. oversize 0.2 exhaust mm 7.199 - 7.217
Valve stem diameter. oversize 0.4 inlet mm 7.425 - 7.443
Valve stem diameter. oversize 0.4 exhaust mm 7.399 - 7.417
Inlet valve stem guide clearance mm 0.020 - 0.069
Exhaust valve stem guide clearance mm 0.046 - 0.095
Free valve spring height mm 43.6
Spring height (compressed) mm max. 26.5
Valve spring inner diameter mm 17.2
Valve spring coil diameter mm 3.7
Number of turns 7.4

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by SaveTheNight on May 2^nd, 2005, 8:34am

2.0 .....

Cast mark 20
Upper correction angle (production) inlet/exhaust 15ø/20ø
Lower correction angle (production) inlet/exhaust 30ø/30ø
Valve seat angle 45ø/30ø
Valve seat width. inlet mm 1.17 - 2.02
Valve seat width. exhaust mm 1.34 - 2.19
Valve guide inner Ø (inlet/exhaust valve). standard mm 7.063 - 7.094
Camshaft bearing parent bore ×. (all) mm 26.00 - 26.03
Number of camshaft bearings 2 x 5
Drive Single roller chain.
hydraulic chain tensioner
Camshaft end float 0.02 - 0.26
Lift - cam. inlet mm 9.99
Lift - cam. exhaust mm 9.16
Cam length (between heel and tip). inlet mm 51.87 - 52.10
Cam length (between heel and tip). exhaust mm 51.04 - 51.27
Valve timing. inlet closes before TDC 9ø
Valve timing. inlet closes after BDC 59ø
Valve timing. exhaust opens before BDC 57ø
Valve timing. exhaust closes after TDC 11ø
Bearing journal Ø - camshaft mm 25.96 - 25.98
Bearing inside diameter mm26.00 - 26.03
Valve timing DOHC
Valve clearances Hydraulic tappets
Hydraulic tappet × mm 30
Hydraulic tappet clearance in housing mm 0.025 - 0.071
Valve length. inlet mm 111.67 - 112.13
Valve length. exhaust mm 111.37 - 111.83
Valve head ×. inlet mm 33.5
Valve head ×. exhaust mm 30
Valve stem × standard. inlet mm 7.025 - 7.043
Valve stem × standard. exhaust mm 6.999 - 7.017
Valve stem × oversize 0.2. inlet mm 7.225 - 7.243
Valve stem × oversize 0.2. exhaust mm 7.199 - 7.217
Valve stem × oversize 0.4. inlet mm 7.425 - 7.443
Valve stem × oversize 0.4. exhaust mm 7.399 - 7.417
Valve stem guide clearance. inlet mm 0.020 - 0.069
Valve stem guide clearance. exhaust mm 0.046 - 0.095
Colour code - spring Red
Free valve spring height mm 44.8
Inlet and exhaust spring strengths are identical
Spring strength. valve open N 635
Spring strength. valve closed N 210
Spring height (compressed). valve open mm 28.0
Spring height (compressed). valve closed mm 38.0
Valve spring inside × mm 17.2
Valve spring wire × mm 3.7
Number of turns 7.4

right ... er ... hmmm... ah yes ... I just have to pop out .. < hopefully someone will have sorted it by the time I get back !! > ... haha .... STN

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by Snoopy on May 2^nd, 2005, 10:20am

Upper correction angle. inlet valve (production) ø30
Valve seat angle ø44.5 - 45.5
Valve seat width. inlet mm 1.18 - 2.02
Valve seat width. exhaust mm 1.35 - 2.19
Cam lift. inlet mm 9.4
Cam lift. exhaust mm 8.75
Valve timing. inlet opens BTDC øCS9
Valve timing. inlet closes ABDC øCS51
Valve timing. exhaust opens BBDC øCS48
Valve timing. exhaust closes ATDC øCS12
Camshaft bearing journal diameter mm 25.96 - 25.98
Free valve spring height mm 43.6

these are the apparent differences, they are very small differences and I would have thought that the two heads are interchangeable , BUT and it is a very big BUT, there would be a difference in the breathing characteristics of the engine if things were not changed albeit very slight.

You pays your money and you take your chances,

I would have thought it was possible to get a 2nd hand head from a scrap yard for very little money.

BTW STN I had NOTHING else to do today! I wsh!

Regards
Snoops

ps gaz01gaz does ALL of this answer your question(s)????

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by SaveTheNight on May 2^nd, 2005, 10:39am

sorrryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy SNOOPS !!! ... STN ..

it caught us though didn't it !! ..we SHOULD know really shouldn't we ...... lol .. :o :o :-X

Eriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiicccccccccccc ???? ..........anyone ?? ..... HELP !!

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by gaz01gaz on May 2^nd, 2005, 7:02pm

well i never !!!!!! been a scorp owner for 6 months now and have watched these forums regularly and have seen all the probs sorted but have to say "got ya" i think i shall see what the engineers say this week after testing the original head,and if the head is unservicable i will buy a 2.0 head and give it a WHIRL,,,i have tried to purchase a 2.3 head but no luck,,,i will keep you posted fellas with the updates.......keep scratchin those heads in the meantime...gaz

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by Snoopy on May 2^nd, 2005, 8:18pm

I find it strange that you say you are unable to get hold of a 2.3 head, but the 2.0 16 v is still available!

Tried ford parts uk for a cylinder head or even a scrappy.. there are loads about . I think the 2.3 engine was very popular!

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by gaz01gaz on May 3^rd, 2005, 8:47am

hi snoops,the breakers are very reluctant to split any engines,well at least in the south yorks area,i have searched the part finder networks to no avail,only offer i had was a recon for £395 + vat,sorry but the car is not worth spending over £400 with all the sundries needed,but maybe worth a couple of hundred,i shall keep searching if the original is no good..................

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by gaz01gaz on May 8^th, 2005, 6:38pm

update......original head needed work on nearly all valve seats and skimming,refitted head started ok but my god is she running rough.....tickover not good,very lumpy...started today and seems a little better..i read somewhere about if removing battery a scorpio can take a while to re-learn all its optimum running values ? does this sound correct ??? p.s ford listed the head and gaskets as different between 2.0 and 2.3

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by Dave on May 9^th, 2005, 10:31am

Gaz,

yes the lumpy running can be caused by battery disconnection - see page 114 of the handbook. It says the car may not behave properly for about 5 miles while it relearns itself. Our 24v took even longer but calmed down eventually.

Cheers

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by gaz01gaz on May 9^th, 2005, 10:44am

thanks for confirming what i thought....i will give her a run today...cheers,,,gaz ;)

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by bigmaltwo on May 11^th, 2005, 2:52am

dare i say it might be down to the toss of a coin?
i'll go for 'tails' as 'heads' seem a bit iffy here!!!!
good luck
mal.

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by Dave on May 11^th, 2005, 9:19am

How did you get on Gaz?

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by gaz01gaz on May 11^th, 2005, 10:32am

hi dave,getting better all the time,now ticks over very smoothly indeed and drives without missing a beat.have to say i was very sceptical upon first start after rebuild,but all seems well now....yipeeeeee

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by Dave on May 11^th, 2005, 12:49pm

Great news :D

A well deserved result for your efforts IMO!

Title: Re: 2.0 +2.3 same head ?
Post by gaz01gaz on May 11^th, 2005, 6:33pm

cheers dave...with the way she drives i think so too..............