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Title: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by roger_howes on Aug 14th, 2006, 9:55am Hello All, I need some advice please. I have a Cossie estate with autobox and I want to tow a caravan. As the car has no tow bar, my dlemma is: do I fit out the Cossie for towing, or do I get rid of the auto Cossie and go for a manual with a smaller engine? I'm unsure because I've always towed with a 2-litre manual, except for a Granada Cosworth (BOA) auto which was awful to tow with - it had no power for towing in the lower revs! The other thing is that the Cosworth engine is far bigger than I need, as a 2-litre would be adequate. However, I really like my Cosworth, and having recently had all the timing gear replaced (at vast expense), plus other jobs, so that everything works, and it's only done 72K miles, I'm loath to part with it. So, could you kind members who tow with a Cosworth (BOB) auto please tell me how good it is for towing, and whether a manual is better. I don't want to kit out the Cossie for towing and then wish I hadn't! I look forward to reading about your experiences. Many thanks. Roger. |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by Spannerdemon on Aug 14th, 2006, 11:50am Hi Roger: I can't tell you what towing with a Cosworth is like, but I have a 12v 2.9 Scorpio Ultima automatic, and I previously had a Volvo 2.0 Turbo 940 GLE manual. The Volvo knocked the spots off the Scorpio when we had our 17' four berth Lunar caravan on tow. Also, the fuel consumption was far better. The main problem we've found, is not on Motorways, where it will tow happily all day at 60mph, but on other roads where you constantly have to vary speed. Apart from drinking fuel at a quite alarming rate, whenever we hit a biggish hill, the Scorpio is gutless, and even dropping the autobox into 1st, it only just coped on a couple of occasions. This was on the back road from Weymouth to West Bay in Dorset, where there are several very punishing hills. The Volvo used to just sail up them. Not what we expected from almost 3 litres of V6 engine! Lovely car to drive, and like you, I love it to bits, but in all honesty, I wish I'd never got rid of my old Volvo as far as towing is concerned!! If you are after a good solid tow car, then the Volvo's are unbeatable, and the older ones are really cheap. They will tow you up the side of a mountain no bother at all. If you go that route, then buy a Manual Gearbox Model. The numbers reflect the number of cylinders (ie a 940 is a 4 cylinder, whilst a 960 is a 6 cylinder), same with the 740/760 etc. There is NO advantage to buying a 6 cylinder. The 4's do the job admirably, and at a sensible cost. You'll just use more fuel, and pay more insurance for a 6 cylinder, and get no advantage at all. Hope this helps you. :) |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by roger_howes on Aug 14th, 2006, 12:15pm Many thanks Spannerdemon. This is exactly the sort of advice/experience I was hoping to receive from members. Funny thing, we were looking at Volvo 2-litre manual estate yesterday, but had no idea of how it would compare with the Scorpio. Very many thanks. Roger. |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by Dave2302 on Aug 14th, 2006, 1:13pm I tow a powerboat (heavier than most caravans) with my cossie estate no problem at all. All I've done is fitted a big oil rad to the autobox cooler. You cannot compare a 12 valve to a cossie for power or economy, the 12 v is an old design strangled by emmission constraints and is gutless and uneconomical compared to the 24v BOB. I have owned both and I never got better than 16 mpg round town / 21 mpg on a run with an embarrisingly gutless 12 v. I agree that most 2 litre turbos would pull much better than the old 12v ' s do !! However, my 24v returns 18 mpg round town / 26 mpg on a run and it pulls like a train, and believe me I drive it hard most of the time. |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by howiedintheplace on Aug 14th, 2006, 3:17pm MK3 24V Granada bad for towing ??? Well all I can say is there must have been something wrong with it. I have towed all sorts of things with all sorts of cars, vans & pick-ups. I rank the 24V up there in the top 10. I did 2200 miles round Scotland lugging a caravan around, the MK3 24V was faultless, overtaking everything else towing on hills including cars with nothing behind them. It only dropped 5 mpg on the trip as a whole, alot of cars espically 2.0L's or below drop twice or 3 times as much as they work harder. A good tow car needs to be heavy, have plenty of torque & some firm back springs or self levelling. The 24V's fit this short list very nicely. |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by RichardMS on Aug 14th, 2006, 5:01pm My Brother has not long bought a Volvo V70 2.4, P reg. He says it is crap compared to his 85 2.8 Granada Scorpio, so I wouldn't say the Volvo is a better car for towing. I know I'm talking about a Mk3 here but surely the Cossie would do the job just as well :-/ |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by Octavian_P on Aug 14th, 2006, 9:24pm The cossworth (BOB) has plenty of power and torque for towing. Only concern is the autobox, which will tend to boil the oil out. If a larger gearbox oil cooler is mounted then there should be no problems |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by Kjetil S on Aug 14th, 2006, 9:42pm My previous 2.4 V6 mk3 pulled caravans like a train and had no problems overtaking regular cars up hill with a 1400kg caravan in the back ( that was the 5 speed manual though), so I wouldn't imagine that the Cossie would have any problems. God, I miss that car (or rather the engine ;D) ~200nm on the rear wheels and almost nothing keeping it down = A LOT of fun ;D Had a nice growl too. |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by roger_howes on Aug 16th, 2006, 8:17am Many thanks to all those who responded. I've not entirely made up my mind what to do, but the obvious thing is to fit a tow bar to the Scorpio and see how I get on. I'd rather keep the Cossie, especially after spending the money on it (as we all need to do!). My wife thinks that's the way to go, so we'll probably try it. On the subject of towing, a Kenlowe advert (page 87 of the June 2006 issue of the Caravan Club magazine) states that Ford models built after 1995 fitted the Kenlowe auto box cooler upgrade as standard! I assume this means new models introduced after 1995, because my Scorp is a 1997, and I can't see an auxilliary autobox cooler. Anyway, where, in the crowded Cosworth engine bay, would one fit an additional cooler?! Regards. Roger. |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by Octavian_P on Aug 16th, 2006, 8:35am You can see in this picture a small part of the cooling radiator for the gearbox http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/leakoil.jpg And for a better view use this http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/coolerpipes.htm Cheers |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by howiedintheplace on Aug 16th, 2006, 9:10am Around 1995 Ford did some work on making the auto less likely to fail when towing. Oil cooler as STD is one of them. Also enlarged front cover oil ways, improved seals & modified oil paths. In 1997 they improved it again but not the Scorp boxes. A auto specialists will probably know more. |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by Spannerdemon on Aug 16th, 2006, 7:07pm Yeah, don't get me wrong on this one. I'm DELIGHTED with my car, and it's certainly powerful enough for me, especially with the price of petrol being so outrageous. As an older driver I appreciate the comfort and luxury of the car, and I'm not at all bothered or impressed by high top speeds. I've been there, done it, and got the T shirt, and I've had several very powerful cars including 3 Jags, a Jensen interceptor and a Lotus. It's just not (in my opinion, and we've had caravans for 20+ years), as good a towcar as my old Volvo, but then the Volvo's are renowned for that sort of donkey work, and with very, very good reason. I would NEVER knock Volvo's because they are extremely good cars. But at least I can switch the lights off on the Scorp!! ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by roger_howes on Aug 17th, 2006, 8:28am Thanks for all the info & links, chaps. Assume, then, that I stay with the Cossie and put a tow bar on it, is an additional autobox cooler really necessary, or does the car already have enough in the way of autobox cooling? Roger. |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by Octavian_P on Aug 17th, 2006, 8:34am Let's say...the larger the biger...and in this case....size does matter ;D |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by roger_howes on Aug 17th, 2006, 1:11pm Agreed - the bigger the better! However, I've just checked with Kenlowe (the fan people), who say that I don't need an auxilliary autobox fluid cooler as from 1995 Ford fitted them as standard to the Scorpios. Just to be sure, I checked with the Ford Technical Helpline (at £1 per minute!!), and they confirmed that an auxilliary autobox fluid cooler is already fitted to the Scorpio and that it is perfectly adequate for towing. Regards. Roger. For your info, the Ford Technical Helpline (at £1 per minute!!) is 0906 55 33 447 - but they do answer immediately and are very quick in answering your query. |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by - Mike - on Aug 17th, 2006, 5:20pm on 08/17/06 at 13:11:33, roger_howes wrote:
Sorry but that can not be quite entirely accurate. I have a 1998 Cosworth Ultima and ending up paying £200 to have an auxilliary cooler fitted purely because mine didn't have one. It has the steering fluid cooler but definately not an external gearbox one beyond the normal water cooling radiator system. I also have now fitted as well a Kenlowe cooling fan which works a treat despite having to set it on its maximum setting to avoid false triggers. By the the way I'm towing an 1300+kg caravan and theres four of us in the car as well. Mike |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by scorpio_man on Aug 17th, 2006, 5:35pm hi mike where does your cooler pipes go? have they been looped back onto each other? http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/coolerpipes.htm |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by roger_howes on Aug 18th, 2006, 9:26am Just checked with my big local Ford dealer (Bristol Street Motors), and spoke to their workshop 'Master Technician'. He said that I don't need additional gearbox cooling. It might be advisable if I am thinking about towing up lots of hills, but even then it is not essential. I suppose, if a lot of heavy towing is anticipated, it comes down to £100 for additional cooling is an insurance against a possible £1000 rebuild! Better safe than sorry. |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by ashley on Oct 10th, 2006, 12:26pm Hi all thought I might as well put my two pence worth in I have always towed with fords so cant compare with any other make the V4 Zephyr was as gutless as can be. Likewise the Cortina, however by the time the Mark 2 Granada 2.8 auto came along they were a dream to tow with, (with extra cooler) so much so I bought two of them. Then came the Granada Scorpio 2 ltr, great to tow with but with no extra oil cooler but the torque converter failed the repair and fitting of an oil cooler cost well over £700. Then came the 2ltr Scorpio Ultima Auto without any oil cooler, no problems towed from one end of the country to the other here in the North East of England we have our fair share of large hills and never had a problem with any of them never been kept back too much, admittedly on some of the larger hills I may have been down to 45mph or so, but so are most vehicles, some not towing at all. In comparison with my brothers Volvo S80 2.5 auto, well to be honest I leave him on the hills every time, so there you go. That’s my peneth so hope it helps. |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by Spannerdemon on Oct 10th, 2006, 12:45pm It's worth fitting a towbar just as a deterrent to all these clowns who can't park properly and drive right up your arse!! 8) It's wonderful how they back off when they see that magic ball that can shred their front bumper in seconds! When fitted with a bumper guard they are even better ;D |
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Title: Re: Cosworth Towing advice please Post by Dave2302 on Oct 10th, 2006, 1:51pm Hi, Like you said, a £100 quid oil cooler kit or a grands worth of Auto. I dont even like driving autos hard without a decent oil rad and believe me the standard ones are not up to the job. I've spent the last twenty years re - building auto boxes and the busiest time in the auto box trade is Caravan Season !!! Incidentally, Ive never seen an auto box that has been fitted with an auxiliary cooling kit blow up through towing !!! Regards, Dave |
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