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Title: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 8th, 2006, 1:48pm Hi, suspect i've got air in my system,temp gauge occasionally drops then goes up or doesn't rise on start up then suddenly shoots to correct reading after 3 miles or so(Doesn't do it all the time). What's the easiest way to remove air from the system without removing coolant? Heard something about running engine up to temp without pressure cap on header/expansion tank is this a good way? Guy. |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by Highlander on Oct 8th, 2006, 2:22pm park it facing uphill and run the engine. Ive got one does the very same though i'm sure its the temp sender |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by Simmo on Oct 8th, 2006, 3:27pm Try the 'Johnnycab' method. Here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1142380998;start=15#15) |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by twinturbo on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:03am Have you tried reseating the guage sender plug? Mine was getting a bit jumpy, puled plug off, back on and it's been rock solid since.. TT |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by Dave on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:09am I've had this due to 2 different causes on 2 separate occasions. First time, connection to the sender for the temp gauge was broken. Second time, air lock. With the engine at operating temperature (or at least not cold so the temp gauge has, or should have, moved) check the tightness of the sender connection. It is the single wire connection IIRC above the top hose. The one with 2 wires is for the engine management and controls fans etc. |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 9th, 2006, 1:59pm Cheers Dave, will have a look at that, how did you get rid of the air lock? |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by Dave on Oct 9th, 2006, 7:26pm Just parked it facing up a slight hill and ran it with the cap off, seemed to do the trick :) Remember to top it up nice and slowly if required. |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:04pm Cheers Dave, will give both ideas a bash tomorrow. |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by twinturbo on Oct 10th, 2006, 12:52pm You could also check and see what the Electronic readout is on the DASH to make sure it's not just a guage fault.. TT |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 11th, 2006, 1:05pm TT, I checked the reading on the dash and it's all over the place! it varies from about 80 up to 150 constantly changing and never settling in one place ie within 10 ie 90 to 100. Can't find the temp sender, could someone take a pic for me so I can find it and give it a check over. If for some reason it's ok(Though it's looking good this is causing the trouble)does anyone have any other ideas? |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by jonnycab on Oct 12th, 2006, 2:13am Have you recently changed the coolant?.....re-filling the system too quickly will cause an airlock :) If the airlock has developed for no reason, then you must have a leak somewhere :( If the temp sender & wires are okay, then an erratic temp guage (in my experience) is usually caused by either the thermostat being faulty, or air collecting around the thermostat & preventing it from functioning properly :) Hope this helps :) |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by Dave on Oct 12th, 2006, 7:33am Haven't got camera at the mo but if you look at the front of the engine above all the pulleys, around the top hose area there are 2 connections. 1 has 2 wires, the other has 1 wire. The 2 wire connection senses temperature for the ecu, the single wire connection is just for the gauge. I will see if I can dig out an old photo as I know I have taken then in the past. |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by Dave on Oct 12th, 2006, 7:41am Woo hoo, found my old post from 1 year ago! Pic is of the 2 temperature senders. They plug in to the top hose housing. The larger one on the left (just below the housing) is for the ecu. The smaller one to the right is for the gauge. http://tinypic.com/a9wy7d.jpg If the gauge sender is wobbly then it is broken as mine was. Hope this helps. |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 12th, 2006, 7:42am Cheers Dave, do you know which one feeds the on board diagnostics(OBD)? If both are fluctuating and it's from 2 different inputs that would suggest an airlock,if it's one input that feeds both the gauge and the obd then it could be that sensor. Guy. PS My fuel effeciency appears to be awful at moment i'm doing alot of town runs, even so struggling to get 250 from a tank,related to temp problem? |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by Dave on Oct 12th, 2006, 7:48am Well the larger sensor going wrong would affect fuelling, but the 24v will nto do well on juice around town anyway. Best thing to do is go through the procedure to get rid of any air first then see what you are left with. If the air is got rid of then comes back you need to check connections, the reservoir and the cap etc as it must be getting in. If it comes down to the senders then they are not dear. As Jonny says it could also be the thermostat at fault but probably bestto check for and get rid of any air first :) |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 12th, 2006, 7:53am Cheers for pic Dave, will have a look after taking daughter to school, did try to get rid of air by parking on incline and running with pressure cap off. Not sure if it worked left it running for 10 mins and blipped throttle when it was up to temp, level in header dropped when blipping and returned to normal after. |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by twinturbo on Oct 12th, 2006, 10:12am With the VE OBD you need to select ECT on the DATA tab and then best put it on a DASH guage for easy viewing. TT |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 12th, 2006, 12:35pm Had a look at senders, does the right hand one(Single) pull off to leave a thread? seems weird. Left one seems ok. So if r/h one is ok must be looking at a bad airlock somewhere is system, or air getting in somehow. The header tank and pressure cap seem ok so not sure how to find the problem. |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by Simmo on Oct 12th, 2006, 10:31pm The single one does have a threaded 'stem'. |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 13th, 2006, 6:57am Cheers Simmo, The reading on the dash is 255 when cold which is correct and it does adjust when warming up just not very stable,going to get some tubing and try johhnycabs method for removing air as i'm convinced it is that causing this. Will post how it goes. Guy |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 16th, 2006, 8:29am After cleaning the temperature sender(Single wire) the problem seems to have gone away. The thread inside the sender was filthy, my fuel economy seems to have settltled down now as well. Thanks for all the advice. Guy. |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by harry.m1byt on Oct 19th, 2006, 9:19pm on 10/09/06 at 10:09:39, Dave wrote:
Where was the connection broken? I have the same problem and I'm wondering if it might be a braoken/damaged wire. |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by harry.m1byt on Oct 19th, 2006, 9:22pm on 10/12/06 at 22:31:45, Simmo wrote:
..and a soft rubber plug on the end of the wire. |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 20th, 2006, 8:18am Problem has reappeared so i'm guessing it must be an air lock and a pretty bad one at that! Tried parking the car up hill, but living in Norfolk that's not that easy, so used a kerb ;D Going to try and find some tubing from somewhere any ideas where? |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by Dave on Oct 20th, 2006, 8:26am Tubing is available from motor factors, or washer tubing from good old Halfords will do. My temp sender was broken internally and just sort of waggled about! |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 20th, 2006, 8:40am Dave, did your broken temp sender give the moving needle all the time or was it intermittent? Will pop down Halfords and get some tubing today. Will post results later. PS which pipe is Johhnycab on about attaching the tubing to is it the top pipe on the expansion tank? |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by jonnycab on Oct 20th, 2006, 10:22am Yes....the small bore top pipe on the expansion tank....the piece of tubing should be small enough to fit inside it :) |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 20th, 2006, 10:28am Hi have pm'd you with this question, but is that the pipe below the overflow pipe ie the middle of the 3 back pipes? |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by jonnycab on Oct 20th, 2006, 10:44am Not sure of the cossie set up, but on the 2.3 it is the pipe that is next to the overflow pipe on the tank....the one that comes from the middle of the large tube connecting T-stat to top of rad :) |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 20th, 2006, 10:50am Cheers mate, suspect this is the return pipe to the header. I assume you don't get coolant flooding out everywhere! Does the level in the transparent tube only rise when you rev the car? ie coolant wont come flooding out of it when the stat lets the waterpump return the coolant to the header tank? I'm assuming as the pipe is raised in the air that gravities force on the coolant is stronger than the pressure in the system hence no coolant gushing out (If that makes sense) |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by jonnycab on Oct 20th, 2006, 11:53am Yep...it's the return pipe. As long as you rev it gently, up to about 2000 rpm, then coolant shouldn't come shooting out. If there is alot of air in the system, then the air may make some coolant shoot out.....so have a bucket at the ready ;).... Usually you will see some coolant rise up the tube followed by an air pocket. :) If a little coolant rises up on tickover after engine is properly warmed up, & it stays at a constant height, then system should be air free....just give it a couple of revs to make sure ;) |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 20th, 2006, 11:59am Cheers mate, will give it a bash when (IF) it stops raining! |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by Dave on Oct 20th, 2006, 12:46pm It was intermittent but got worse until it just read wrong all the time. Used to wet my pants when driving along happily, look down and see the gauge at the top of the red :o |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 20th, 2006, 1:10pm Dave, was the dodgy sender the double one or the single threaded one above it? |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 20th, 2006, 2:32pm Can anyone help it looks like my header tank has two return pipes! One goes to the engine just above temp senders and one goes to the r/h top of radiator, I assume the second one going to the rad is the one i want to connect this hose to? |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by Dave on Oct 20th, 2006, 7:37pm Dodgy sender was the single threaded one :) |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 20th, 2006, 9:42pm on 10/20/06 at 19:37:17, Dave wrote:
Dave, how much was a new sender? Did you connect it yourself? I'm still not convinced as to what the problem is ie air lock or temp sender fault, if it's cheap enough i'll replace the sender anyway. |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by Dave on Oct 20th, 2006, 11:08pm Yes mate pretty cheap. Have a look at this thread from when mine was changed: http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin4;action=display;num=1123605023;start=0#0 It was just a dead simple screw in screw out job :) |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 20th, 2006, 11:14pm Dave your an absolute star :) For that sort of money i'll defo change the sender, thanks for the info will ring round to get one will let you know if it cures the wandering temp needle. Again thanks, Guy. |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by Dave on Oct 20th, 2006, 11:17pm Pleased to help, hope it solves the problem :) |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 21st, 2006, 1:54pm Changed the temp sender and did the "Johnnycab" air removal trick. The temp needle is now solid as a rock ;D ;D On the Cossie the pipe nearest the overflow pipe is the one to attach the hosing to! Tried the other one first and got wet :( Quite a bit of air in there. Good tip for changing temp sensor is wait more than an hour before removing old one off a hot engine ;) Learnt the hard way :-[ |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by Dave on Oct 21st, 2006, 1:59pm Nice work Guy :D Good tip about the engine being hot, remembered this the other day as I grabbed the exhaust just after switching off. What a tool ;D |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by jonnycab on Oct 22nd, 2006, 12:33am So it works on a cossie as well....I'll have to patent that idea ;D |
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Title: Re: Suspect air lock Post by cossieguy on Oct 22nd, 2006, 8:11am on 10/22/06 at 00:33:27, jonnycab wrote:
I'll send you a big pat on the back in lieu of royalties ;) |
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