Ford Scorpio Forum - Print Page


    
      
        Ford Scorpio Forum
        (https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)
      

        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> Recon autobox problems, my story
        
(Message started by: TiberiuS on Oct 8^th, 2006, 9:10pm)

Title: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by TiberiuS on Oct 8^th, 2006, 9:10pm

Well, I guess it's time to tell you the story of my £1500 autobox recon. Apologies if this drags on a bit but I'll get there in the end, this may sound familiar to some others on here. Some advice from anybody with knowledge with autoboxes would be appreciated :)

I'm not running Ford dealers down, just that my local one proved out of their depth on the Scorpio.

September last year, booked the car into FMD for service/MOT (working, no time), £190 later and the box started playing up badly the same afternoon, things got much worse from then on. Searched around for recon quotes (by this time too wary to drive it far) but wasn't happy and in the end bit the bullet and went back to Ford.

All sounded great, for £1430 all in the car would be shipped from my local dealer to Colchester, recon box dropped in and car delivered back that afternoon or next morning. Needing it done I agreed and 2 weeks later took the car in at 8am to be told that the car didn't need to go to Colchester after all, local dealer now had a tech onsite and not to worry as the car would be ready that afternoon.

Drove past from work early afternoon and there is my car still parked where I left it, went in and was told sorry, it will be the next job, ready tomorrow (Tuesday) midday. To cut a long story short, by Wednesday afternoon I was getting quite narked and demanded to speak to the engineer, was told some of the parts didn't fit and to come back tomorrow (Thursday) to learn more. Thursday comes and I'm getting very angry, walked in at 4pm and demanded to be allowed to see my car and get some stuff out of the glovebox, they wouldn't let me so I walked around to the carpark, peered into the workshop and alas, there's my Scorpio sitting in bits, all alone up a corner. Created murder and their story now changed to 'still waiting on some parts, done tomorrow'. Next morning (Friday) I was up there again at 9am, 'either my car is ready today or I'll take it further'. With much chattering going on out the back I left for work, 4:30pm I gets a call, my car is ready for collection...

They tried to bump the price up to £1575 for 'sundries' but I had the signed paperwork from when I booked it, hence the price went back to £1430 and off I drove with my recon gearbox. Not too happy with the change between 2 and 3 or into R but it'll wear in I thought (hoped). Took care to wear it in but 4000 miles and 10 months later, 1-2 and 3-o/d are still smooth but R and 2-3 haven't got any better and I'm now noticing I'm starting to get a heavy thump into reverse occasionally when cold and the downshift from 3-2 is occasionally getting harder, the car never gets driven hard and I never ever use Sport mode because it makes the thump worse. Other than this the car drives well, never lets me down but this gearbox is haunting me.

To my dilemma: I still have about 6 weeks left on the guarantee, do I go against my own wisdom and chance taking it back to Ford and argue the toss or could my problem be that the 'new' box has bedded in and needs a change of fluid/filters and the brake bands adjusting?

I know my own car and I'd rather do it myself if I can.

Any help much appreciated ;)

Bruce.

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by david_molloy on Oct 8^th, 2006, 10:16pm

Hello Bruce

I'd get it back under warranty myself - you paid enough so take advantage of warranty.

Have you told FMD that it has had a continuing fault since job initially done. If so I'd threaten them with sale of goods act if they don't sort it out FOC

david

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by Dave on Oct 9^th, 2006, 10:20am

Very tricky. I know exactly how you feel. Personally, and this is just my opinion, I would find a gearbox specialist. If it is something like a simple adjustment then it won't cost much.

David is absolutely right though, under warranty Ford would have to sort it out. Might be worth going back and just having a chat with them to see what sort of response you get.

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by Dave2302 on Oct 9^th, 2006, 4:34pm

Hi, I'm a retired Auto box Specialist and the problem you describe is not a simple adjustment !! It is possibly a Pressure Regulator solenoid fault, not too expensive but a bit tricky if you dont know your way around Auto Valve Bodies. The rub is this, you could change it and find the Prob is just the same. In which case the Direct Clutch stack / clearance is set up wrongly, neccesitating a strip down. If you have already had the pan off to replace the solenoid FMD will walk away from his guarantee. My advice is take it back to FMD and make them sort it out. Dont listen to rubbish like "They all drive that way, Sir" coz they dont if they are built right !! Regards and good luck, Dave.

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by TiberiuS on Oct 9^th, 2006, 5:24pm

Ok, thanks all for the advice, very helpful :)

To elaborate on the problem more, I get the occasional thump from 3rd down to 2nd, it's been there on and off from the start, the thump isn't normally there on cold/local running but seems to be there if I've been travelling at speed like on the dual carriageway, using sport mode (tried it last night) makes the thump much worse. 1-2 and 3-4 are always ok but the change up from 2-3 has never been as smooth as the others, feels much 'tighter' if you get my drift but I never get any thump on there. Most of the time reverse engages smoothly but sometimes I do now get a HEAVY thump/jolt like I did on the old 'box. All in all it now behaves just like the old one albeit not as bad. Mileage last November when I had it done was 101,000, now at 104,550.

The main reason I don't want to take it back to Ford is the trouble I had with the electrics after it was done, among other things the car started dying in traffic less than 2 weeks later (traced to electrics disturbed by Ford). I swore after that experience that I'd stop being lazy and repair it myself which has gone well so far and saved me a few £££, I'm loathe to let it go back unless I really have to.

I haven't touched the new autobox at all, as far as Ford are concerned the guarantee should still stand.

Thanks as always for any help/advice.

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by howiedintheplace on Oct 9^th, 2006, 5:54pm

Bruce the whole reason people go to Ford & pay the "big money" is that you have some come back if it's not done properly & that you want it done correctly to the book.

You will regret it to your last day if you don't go back >:(

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by wickedteen on Oct 9^th, 2006, 5:54pm

i had mine done, but it only cost me £900 with six months warranty, i had loads of trouble, in the end i was all set to take them to court, then all of a sudden they pick it up a put in a new box, turns out mine was warping when it got hot.

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by Spannerdemon on Oct 9^th, 2006, 6:52pm

The Ford Dealer agreed to fit you a re-conditioned gearbox for an agreed price. So a contract exists.

Also they have told you that "local dealer now had a tech onsite".

By taking it to a Ford Dealer, (rather than some garage who might not have had the required skills) you have every right to expect that the work should have been carried out in a professional and FORD factory approved manner by FORD qualified mechanics who were competent to carry out such work.

My advice would be to return to the dealer. Ask to see the Managing Director of the Dealership concerned, and tell him what has happened.

Keep it polite, but very firm. If possible, take a friend to witness what is being said.

Tell him that unless the matter is sorted out to your entire satisfaction, and at no further cost, you will take the matter to your solicitor.

Make it clear that, if you are placed in that position, you will not only claim the costs of the case, but all other costs which ensue whilst the matter is sorted out.

Taxis, Hire Cars, time and inconvenience etc etc.

A good solicitor will wipe the floor with them over this.
They contracted to repair your vehicle for a fixed price.

They have not done so.

I worked for a law firm for nearly six years, and saw this kind of thing regularly. They haven't got a leg to stand on. They have messed you about in a quite abominable fashion.

What might be of interest to you, is that your solicitor may well call in the services of a professional Gearbox Specialist who would be tasked to strip and report on the gearbox. These guys are Law Society approved experts (and highly qualified experts at that), whose evidence is wholly accepted in a Court of Law, so if the gearbox that your dealer fitted is NOT up to standard, then they would be in deep water.

Also. Don't be fobbed off with any phrases like "Well, we didn't actually build the gearbox".

That's not your problem. That's the dealers problem.
He has to deal with his sub-contractors....not you.
You have every right to expect that they would have fitted your car with a fully working professionally re-built gearbox to at least Ford original standard.

I hope this helps you to sort out your problem.

If they won't play ball, then go out and hire a car, and then SUE THEM. You'll recover every penny plus a lot more.

Personally I am sure they will see sense once they know that you are not going to be messed about any more.

Good Luck with it. :)

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by TiberiuS on Oct 9^th, 2006, 9:17pm

Fair enough, it goes back in. I'll get it booked in tomorrow, what Dave said about the box sounds pretty close to me.

It goes against my wisdom letting Ford pull it to bits again but I know what you all say is right, if it was someone else on here I'd be saying the same, wipe the floor with the bleedin' tyrants ;). I know how to handle them, been there before, I just want the problem sorted without a repeat of all the after effects of last time.

I'll let you know how I get on :)

Bruce.

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by Dave2302 on Oct 10^th, 2006, 2:20pm

Hi Bruce, hope you get on ok and I fully endorse what Spannerdemon said. I used to get asked to strip and report on transmissions for the legal proffessionals and tis true what he says, if it is not rebuilt up to scratch this is the dealers problem. It doesn't matter either way if he has let an in house technician repair / rebuild it or if he farmed the job out to a local specialist, which is what most main dealers do !! We used to rebuild for lots of main agents !! Also its important to remember that if a specialist has done it but it is not up to scratch, he is not aware of this yet, but if he is a decent one he will just rectify or replace the unit without quibble. I sympathise and understand what you mean though, I hate ever letting third parties near my car, they always seem to leave something loose / unplugged / off, and behold when questioned, "We never touched that bit mate!!!!" Anyway keep us posted on how you get on, regards Dave

P.S. The reason it thumps more in sport mode is the sport program runs the line pressure higher for crisper shifts, but if there is an underlying problem in normal mode such as already high pressure or clutch clearances etc then sport mode will just magnify the problem. D

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by mr._floppy on Oct 10^th, 2006, 6:32pm

Reading your original post , and correct me if I'm wrong, you've waited 10 months ( and 4000 miles ), and now you choose to complain ?

You've got to see it from the Garage's point of view, they could , and would be within their rights , to enquire why it took so long to complain about these faults, and could infer that maybe, in the interim , someone has been tinkering with the said box, and that you, were trying to pull a fast one before the guarantee ran out.

I know you wouldn't do anything like that, but people do, and a garage is entitled to be suspicious.

That doesn't absolve them from honouring the guarantee of course.

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by Spannerdemon on Oct 10^th, 2006, 8:04pm

Must say that I hadn't realised either that it was that long ago..................!!

This will put a very different light on it.

Go for the guarantee option without delay.

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by TiberiuS on Oct 10^th, 2006, 9:22pm

You misunderstand me, the new autobox was passable but I've noticed it more recently. It's still smooth except for that occasional thump into reverse (actually really a thump out of park, wherever the shifter goes) and sometimes an low audible clunk on the downshift from 3-2. The reason I left it this long was reluctance to go back because of the trouble I had with Ford at the time and that I planned soon afterwards to let it go (other circumstances). It can't hurt to go back and argue my side, I've got a written 1 year guarantee and the car is in excellent condition, they can see I look after it and that it doesn't do much mileage or get thrashed. An expensive lesson to me, next time I need work done by a garage, the car will be better than perfect before I part with any money ;).

Thanks again all, Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by TRACEYS_LIMO on Oct 15^th, 2006, 8:24am

hi i had my gearbox fully recondioned 18 months ago on my 2.0 estate at a cost of £850 at a recommended auto specialised and i have only done 4k since then and the car started to jerk into gear when accelerating and thump into gear when slowing down i took it back thinking that here we go this is going to cost me a fortune, he ran a full test on the gaerbox and could not find any fault ,apart from on the road test he then suggested that it could be the maf i had a spare which he fitted, and then he retested the gearbox and told me everything was fine, i then asked him what the damage was to my pocket and he charged me £20 i have since done 200 miles and the car is really good, if you live in the south the guys name is mike and is near gatwick airport 01293 842229.
just a thought if garages give good service and are fair could there be a section on here so people no were to go in there area

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by Oliver on Oct 17^th, 2006, 11:16pm

Indeed, I was going to enquire if you had cleaned the MAF. Ensure that the MAF connector is firmly push in too.

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by TiberiuS on Oct 18^th, 2006, 11:53am

Thanks for the advice :)

MAF was cleaned ages ago when the old autobox was playing up, came up sparkling clean but didn't make any difference to the car at all. Ford are dragging their heels, they just don't want to know about guarantee repairs. I was given a verbal 12 month 10,000 mile guarantee at the time but I can't find it written anywhere on the paperwork, may have to put this down to experience, once is twice enough so to speak, never again >:(

I'm not going to argue too much, had enough problems with it after it came back last time which were NOT there before it went in but it's always my word against thiers.

In two minds now whether to just live with the harsh downshift or to take it all the way to Sudbury in Suffolk and get a proper autobox specialist to look it over, I've spent £££ thousands on the car though and money is tight at the moment anyway.

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by Oliver on Oct 18^th, 2006, 2:37pm

on 10/18/06 at 11:53:22, TiberiuS wrote:

Thanks for the advice :)

MAF was cleaned ages ago when the old autobox was playing up, came up sparkling clean but didn't make any difference to the car at all.

Then it's probably time to clean it again. You have nothing to lose apart from 10-15 minutes of your time. If you have ever driven with the MAF disconnected you will appreciate how the gear changes are significantly affected. It could also be an electrical problem. The loom above the gearbox has been known to give problems.

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by TiberiuS on Oct 18^th, 2006, 7:34pm

Thanks Oliver but the MAF was cleaned the other week when I did the air filter, the old girl runs quite well apart form this, no other faults which point to the MAF. I did leave the MAF disconnected once on the old box to see if 'limp home' mode cured the faults, not a bit of difference in the behaviour, the thing which convinced me that I needed a new one.

I'll give it another squirt anyway when I'm under the bonnet again just in case :)

Bruce.

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by wickedteen on Oct 19^th, 2006, 9:37am

THREATEN THEM WITH SMALL CLAIMS COURT, YOU HAVE TO GIVE THEM 14DAYS NOTICE IN WRITTING, I DID THIS THREE WEEKS AGO AND NOW HAVE NEW BOX IN MINE, IF YOU DONT THREATEN THEM THEN THEY WILL JUST RUN ALL OVER YOU, IF YOU DO TAKE THEM TO SMALL CLAIMS COURT YOU CAN CLAIM FOR A NEW CAR "AS YOU HAD TO BUY ANOTHER AS YOURS WAS NOT ROAD WORTHY" THEN THERES THE NEW ROAD TAX YOU HAD TO BUY, PLUS THE ROAD TAX FROM THE ORIGANOL CAR AS ITS BEEN SITTING ON YOUR DRIVE AND CANT BE USED, IF YOU ADD ALL THIS UP YOU WILL WIN AND YOU WILL GET A NICE SUM AT THE END OF IT, BUT ONCE YOU THROW THIS AT THEM THEY KIND OF S~#T THEM SELFS AND GET THE WORK DONE, NOW THIS WORKED FOR ME, I HAD MINE DONE AT ACC IN CHESHUNT AND WOULD NEVER RECOMMEND ANYONE TO TAKE THEIR SCORPIO THERE.
the best place i have found is beds gearboxes in dunstable, they used to repair these for ford and found that they wear out at 100,000 miles and decided to modify the box, there boxes now do in excess of 250,00 miles, and will only cost you £900 to have it done, good luck

Title: Re: Recon autobox problems, my story
Post by TiberiuS on Oct 19^th, 2006, 4:31pm

Yup, it is going back, I'll get the ol' girl up there Monday morning if all goes well.

Didn't tell Ford the problem was there from the start, as far as they're concerned it only started 2 weeks ago. Feel a bit of a mug now, letting it go for all this time but I know all the comments are right, I'm not slamming Ford but my hunch is that somebody broke something big during the work hence the delay, they rushed the new box in on the Friday when I complained and something wasn't done right in all the rush. Should have complained but it'll go away I thought...hmmm.

And no fear, I won't let them walk all over me :)

I'll let you know how I get on.

Bruce.