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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
        
(Message started by: DazRSK on Oct 17^th, 2006, 6:42pm)

Title: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by DazRSK on Oct 17^th, 2006, 6:42pm

I am looking for a bit of advice please.

Does anyone on here know much about the differences between the early 115PS TD and the 125PS TD ?

What I mean is - I currently have the early version. If someone was to lift the bonnet of 125PS, what would I be looking for that's different to mine ?

I'm just considering whether to change my N reg for the later version and I wouldn't benefit much more by picking up the same powered version again - unless someone on here advises differently. I might as well go for the later engine version.

I am sure most traders wouldn't have a clue - probably didn't even know they changed in 1997. Therefore, just thought I would be ahead of the game - I don't want some trader/vendor convincing me that his is the latest version when it's clearly not. I realise there is a fair bet that most R reg's are updated versions, however, you never know with these cars as some were registered so long after being manufactured.

Also - has anyone on here ever compared the 2 versions ie performance, handling, quieter/noisier, an all-round better proposition ?

Any advice would be great.

Thanks - really appreciated.

Daren

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by taliban on Oct 17^th, 2006, 10:56pm

mines the earlier version, i've never driven the later one thank god cos i might want one lol.
apart from the slight power difference, the later one has a MAF, the earlier one doesnt, the earlier one uses a cable accelerator whereas i think the later one has no cable, 'fly by wire' system. i dont know of any other differences but there could be some, i'll check my owners manual......back in a tick.....

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by taliban on Oct 17^th, 2006, 11:02pm

my owners handbook only lists the earlier engine...

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by LiverpaulH on Oct 18^th, 2006, 9:26am

Hi Daren

Having owned both it is definitely worth getting a later version one as you can notice the difference. If you're looking to buy one with the later engine, when you test drive it, it should pull very strongly all the way through the rev band between 2000 and 4100 ish with the turbo on song. I test drove a couple that obviously weren't right before settling on mine. Taliban is correct, the later version is fly by wire and has a couple of other subtle differences (but not much),

Just to help I'll modify this post with a picture of each engine later on today as I still have both cars!! This'll show you what to look for.

HTH
Paul

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by DazRSK on Oct 18^th, 2006, 9:29am

Taliban - thanks. At least there is something to work from when a bonnet is lifted - the 'fly by wire' set up is a give away.

These 125PS diesels are a bit of an unknown quantity, as I suppose not many were made before production ceased. It would be good to find out how much better they are than the earlier version - if at all.

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by taliban on Oct 18^th, 2006, 1:25pm

Daz, speak to Paul, the greedy git has both.

if you find an automatic one that could be worthwhile, deffo rare as they only made them for about a year...

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by LiverpaulH on Oct 18^th, 2006, 4:05pm

Righty ho daz, here goes:

Front view 1995 version:
http://usera.imagecave.com/LiverpaulH/TheBoat/1995Tdi2.jpg

Front view 1997 version:
http://usera.imagecave.com/LiverpaulH/TheBoat/1997Tdi1.jpg

N/s view 1995:
http://usera.imagecave.com/LiverpaulH/TheBoat/1995Tdi3.jpg

N/s view 1997:
http://usera.imagecave.com/LiverpaulH/TheBoat/1997Tdi2.jpg

O/s view 1995:
http://usera.imagecave.com/LiverpaulH/TheBoat/1995Tdi4.jpg

O/s view 1997:
http://usera.imagecave.com/LiverpaulH/TheBoat/1997Tdi3.jpg

Defo worth going for a later engine if at all possible, it is a really surprisingly good drive for a diesel. I really liked my 1995 but it didn't have the same guts on a hill pulling a 3ton trailer as the newer one!!

As for the differences the main one is the missing throttle cable assembly (and cruise assembly) on the later model, thanks to the fbw as detailed by taliban. Also note the differences on the air box and the thermostat housing at the front.

Hope this helps daz. I'm based in brum so if you wanted a try out of the later one v the older one you'd be welcome to pop over. PM me if you need.

Cheers
Paul

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by DazRSK on Oct 18^th, 2006, 6:59pm

Paul - thanks for taking the time out to do this. Really appreciate your help and advice here - you have been really helpful.

I can clearly see the differences now - there is quite a bit of difference actually. I obviously recognise all of the '95 pictures from under my bonnet - but the '97 lump is different in quite a few areas, as you mention.

And it sounds like you would recommend the later version. Just trying to think when the next time I will be up your way as I don't normally get to Birmingham (I live on Essex/Suffolk border). Thanks for offer though - I'll let you know by PM if I am in a position to take it up.

Well mine is a saloon and I have got my eye on a 1997 estate version in Kent - I would prefer the load lugger as they are so much more handy. And your advice is definitely swaying me to go for the later version.

Taliban - thanks also for your response. I know everybody will curse me with the following - I don't like or trust Ford autoboxes. I know that these exec cars were made to be autos and if they were German, I would have one.

However, working for Ford Motor Company and knowing what the quality of 1990's Fords are like - I'm sorry - but Ford autos are not good for my health.

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by Kjetil S on Oct 18^th, 2006, 7:05pm

on 10/18/06 at 18:59:33, DazRSK wrote:

I know that these exec cars were made to be autos and if they were German, I would have one.

Afaik, all Scorpios were made in Germany ???

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by taliban on Oct 18^th, 2006, 7:24pm

you work for ford? you wouldnt happen to have a diesel injector removal socket would you? the one with the cut away bit in the side to pass the lead through...

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by TiberiuS on Oct 18^th, 2006, 9:46pm

on 10/18/06 at 18:59:33, DazRSK wrote:

I know everybody will curse me with the following - I don't like or trust Ford autoboxes. I know that these exec cars were made to be autos and if they were German, I would have one.

Nope, I can't say I blame you mate, both my Ford autos have been trouble in that department, it's the main reason I wouldn't be keen to buy another Scorpio as much as I like them. Good autobox when it works but there are some serious wear and tear problems there.

Good luck car hunting :)

Bruce.

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by LiverpaulH on Oct 19^th, 2006, 9:00am

on 10/18/06 at 18:59:33, DazRSK wrote:

Taliban - thanks also for your response. I know everybody will curse me with the following - I don't like or trust Ford autoboxes. I know that these exec cars were made to be autos and if they were German, I would have one.

Daz as with you I'm not sure about the auto. When they work they are superb, and if I got a 24v I'd want auto only, for lazy reasons. As for the diesel engine I think it is really well suited to the manual box, I'm not as keen on the auto versions, and besides I really wouldn't trust the auto box to last more than a month with me, running a haulage company I do expect the car to work for its living:

If all the lorries are out then the car & trailer are used:
http://usera.imagecave.com/LiverpaulH/TheBoat/boattrailer.jpg

Not just for work either: yes it is the old boat behind the new:
http://usera.imagecave.com/LiverpaulH/MidmeetOct06/Picture068.jpg

And even the old boat had to work here at Billing 2005:
http://usera.imagecave.com/LiverpaulH/Billing2005/Brutearrives.jpg

Hence my preference for the manual box!! Oh and the self levelling suspension is a boon, I've never towed with such a good car before (the reardrive also helps with the stability).

Good luck in your search daz.

Cheers
Paul 8)

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by DazRSK on Oct 19^th, 2006, 2:40pm

on 10/18/06 at 19:05:08, Kjetil S wrote:

Afaik, all Scorpios were made in Germany ???

Yes - but is was US$ which was bank-rolling their manufacture as the ultimate parent is a yank company. Further, Ford caned the Scorpio in its latter years with just sheer bad quality production - as they do with every model that is run out. Do you remember last Capri's - the Brookland green 280's. If any of you ever fancy rolling back the years and having a wideboy Capri, never buy the 280. They fall apart!!

I know where you are coming from but (shoot myself in the foot again) they are not Mercedes or BMW.

The point is I wouldn't have those marques anyway -but if you want reliable autobox, generally speaking, you have to hand it to those guys.

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by DazRSK on Oct 19^th, 2006, 2:43pm

on 10/18/06 at 19:24:19, taliban wrote:

you work for ford? you wouldnt happen to have a diesel injector removal socket would you? the one with the cut away bit in the side to pass the lead through...

Taliban - no, unfortunately not. I work on the pen-pushing side I am afraid, therefore, no access to the tools on production line.

Doesn't the local Ford dealer have one of these?

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by DazRSK on Oct 19^th, 2006, 2:50pm

Paul - I see that you work your Scorpio's. I know what you mean about the self-levelling suspension being an additional asset.

My wife tows a horse trailer every so often. She uses a V6 Mondy Estate to do this but the Scorpio would be better - hence the reason for changing my saloon to estate to obtain that suspension.

I guess your R plate is the later diesel and M the earlier ? Look like some nice Scorpios you have got there.

I'll let everybody know if I manage to find a nice later diesel - preferably without any rot would be good!

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by LiverpaulH on Oct 19^th, 2006, 3:50pm

Yep the r plate is the 125 version and the m the 115 version. (It does feel like more difference than that).

To find a good scorpio bodywise I firmly believe in getting the latest pre facelift you can (hence my 97 R plater) as the post facelift cars seem to be of a poorer build quality esp re rust around the arches. The M plater is still really sound bodywise (better than a lot of facelift ones I've seen).

Looking forward to being updated with what you get.

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by taliban on Oct 19^th, 2006, 5:32pm

my local ford dealer might have one, but i dont have a local ford dealer.....that i know of lol

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by TiberiuS on Oct 19^th, 2006, 6:34pm

on 10/19/06 at 14:40:06, DazRSK wrote:

This I know from experience, the build quality on Capris started to suffer after the old lineup was dropped and the Laser introduced, there were some horror stories floating around in Capri owner's circles about the general build of the 280 and the bodykit arch flares on nearly new cars falling off and taking most of the rusty arch with them.

I love my Capris but the general build quality wasn't great at the best of times, at least with the Mk2/3.

It's not even the safest bet buying a Merc nowadays as they've had some build problems in the past few years but the top of the line new shape Jag has a Mercedes autobox.

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by DazRSK on Oct 20^th, 2006, 12:21pm

on 10/19/06 at 17:32:24, taliban wrote:

my local ford dealer might have one, but i dont have a local ford dealer.....that i know of lol

lol - you don't have a local Ford dealer ?? ???

I thought everybody had a Ford dealer on the end of their road. ;D

Title: Re: 115PS Diesel vs 125PS Diesel
Post by TiberiuS on Oct 20^th, 2006, 12:52pm

on 10/20/06 at 12:21:48, DazRSK wrote:

lol - you don't have a local Ford dealer ?? ???

I thought everybody had a Ford dealer on the end of their road. ;D

Not in Afghanistan they don't ;)

It's all gone pear shaped since those bleedin' dictators took over, guv ::)

They replaced all the FMD's with Tesco superstores...

Bruce ;)