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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> Need advice on: 24V to 16V DOHC Conversion
        
(Message started by: pappa on Nov 8^th, 2006, 9:26am)

Title: Need advice on: 24V to 16V DOHC Conversion
Post by pappa on Nov 8^th, 2006, 9:26am

Ok, please don't think I've gone mad or something like that. I just happen to have a factory built zero kilometer on the clock 2.3DOHC engine + A4LDE & accessories and my 24V has about 200 thousand km behind. It is in very good condition, I've renewed the tming chains just a while ago, but the autobox is on it's way to autobox heaven (or hell). I will save the monster 24V for future use. (or sell it)

My need for advice is:

I have a lot of little boxes with assorted selection of wiring, sensors and rubber hoses. The boxes contain the part numbers which would help to identify the contents. Where can I find the information on which part is in question?

There's new MAF, airfilter & the whole box, hoses, full engine & autobox electricts and little levers... You name it, I've got it. The set was meant to be put into Russian Volgas. It was a project where a Finnish company had made a deal to uppgrade a vast amount of Volga Taxis in Russia, but the project went "on the rocks." The engine build year is -98 (I've been told)

I need to rebuild the whole exhaust piping and the EGR system and I do have the original new pipes and tubes for the EGR. There are many other things too that need to be re-invented, but has anyone done this before?

Do I need a new instrument panel for example? The rpm clock in the 24V is - I'm guessing - set for the V6?

Quite a puzzle, I know... So any help would be appreciated. I Will probably document the whole operation when it takes place.

Title: Re: Need advice on: 24V to 16V DOHC Conversion
Post by RichardMS on Nov 8^th, 2006, 10:01am

Probably not imposible but it will need a lot of work.
You would be much better off donating the engine to me instead ;D ;)

Title: Re: Need advice on: 24V to 16V DOHC Conversion
Post by howiedintheplace on Nov 8^th, 2006, 10:18am

No not impossible at all.

Basically look round the two engines & you will soon see what you need to do.

The clocks are O.K for both.

Not 100% on this but I think you can just plug in your 2.3 engine loom into the big socket & the gearbox one too.
Then change the ECU for a 2.3 one.

Edis plugs maybe different again not sure, basically one is for a 6 cylinder the other a 4, maybe as easy as change the module.

I think you may be surprised how easy it is.

Title: Re: Need advice on: 24V to 16V DOHC Conversion
Post by twinturbo on Nov 8^th, 2006, 2:48pm

I thought the clocks were different . He will need a type 2 dash rather than a type 10.

Can't see a reason why the ECU won't just plug in.

C766 is the EDIS plug and is 12 pins even ont he 16V so it may be ok just to swap the module.

Then it's just the exhuast,fule lines, etc to sort.

TT

Title: Re: Need advice on: 24V to 16V DOHC Conversion
Post by TiberiuS on Nov 8^th, 2006, 4:46pm

Pappa, that's a brave idea you have but you'll miss the 24v, trust me ;)

It'd be easier than going from a 16v to a 24 though, at least the other parts (brakes etc) will cope with the power and I'm sure both diffs have the same ratio.

The 2.3 would have a hell of a time lugging a GAZ Volga around, they used to have a 2.3 4cyl anyway I thought, 110bhp as I remember.

Good luck.

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Need advice on: 24V to 16V DOHC Conversion
Post by howiedintheplace on Nov 9^th, 2006, 10:26am

I have not checked the clocks but can't see what the difference would be both use edis signal for rev counter, speed sensor is the same, the only difference is if it as a computor/warning display I think but do check.
Diffs are different ratio only. You will have to fit the 24V speed sensor cog for the right speed readout.
Will probably be better on fuel but feel slow due to the ratio.

You will miss the 24V no question about it ;D

Title: Re: Need advice on: 24V to 16V DOHC Conversion
Post by pappa on Nov 10^th, 2006, 7:45am

I'm missing the 24V already :D

But it won't go away, it'll stay in the family. And I have another 24V :D
( I've lost my marbles a looooong time ago... )

I have an -86 2.8i V6 4x4 Hatchback Granada, -93 2.9i 24V "Granada - almost a Scorpio"
and of course the -96 24V. The reason for the "conversion" is that my wife needs a
good car to drive and the 24V gearbox/engine are not as reliable as I'd like them
to be. And now that I have a NEW engine and the -96 is otherwise in good condition
so why don't I just swap.

Personally I like the -93 car, it has 194bhp, which is almost enough - for me at least.

Thank you all for the tips, if anything more pops up, please let me know. It will take
me a while before I begin the project and I will document it while at it.

I do not know, wheter this is interesting to anyone, but I have documented a
exhaust pipe rebuild and it can be found at: http://www.issikka.net/make/cat_project.htm

Title: Re: Need advice on: 24V to 16V DOHC Conversion
Post by pappa on Nov 10^th, 2006, 7:47am

on 11/08/06 at 10:01:02, RichardMS wrote:

Probably not imposible but it will need a lot of work.
You would be much better off donating the engine to me instead ;D ;)

I do like the nose of your car!

Looking very, very good!

Title: Re: Need advice on: 24V to 16V DOHC Conversion
Post by martin_rowe on Nov 10^th, 2006, 8:50am

man after my own heart, well done, though you could have just 'knocked out the monoliths from the oroginal cats & fitted the new ones further back, mind you I cant understand the tv in Finland either.

Title: Re: Need advice on: 24V to 16V DOHC Conversion
Post by pappa on Nov 10^th, 2006, 9:00am

on 11/10/06 at 08:50:51, martin_rowe wrote:

Well I thought of that, blowing the dust out from the
catalysators, but got a tip from Ford-club forum in Finland:
The empty catalysators would create a chamber where the
exhaust gases would spin around like a f**t in the leather
pants... Reducing the power (marginally I would say).

Mate, I understand most of the language they use in Finnish
TV, but I don't understand the content any more. ;D

Title: Re: Need advice on: 24V to 16V DOHC Conversion
Post by RichardMS on Nov 10^th, 2006, 10:20am

on 11/10/06 at 07:47:22, pappa wrote:

I do like the nose of your car!

Looking very, very good!

Thanks, Here is a better pic for you ;)

http://usera.imagecave.com/RichardMS/Scorpio/6-copy.jpg

And some of the engine.

http://usera.imagecave.com/RichardMS/Scorpio2/2006_0922Image0009-copy.jpg

http://usera.imagecave.com/RichardMS/Scorpio2/2006_0922Image0001-copy.jpg

Title: Re: Need advice on: 24V to 16V DOHC Conversion
Post by pappa on Nov 10^th, 2006, 10:39am

Oh yes!

That's the way it should look like!

Excellent work!

Title: Re: Need advice on: 24V to 16V DOHC Conversion
Post by pappa on Nov 10^th, 2006, 12:37pm

Anyone has a picture of the engine room, showing the A/C pump in 2.3 ?

Title: Re: Need advice on: 24V to 16V DOHC Conversion
Post by pappa on Jul 19^th, 2007, 6:29am

Greetings fellow Scorpionists!

Well... The conversion from 24V to 16V is now on it's way. Today it is time to drop
the engine & transmission on the floor and hopefully tomorrow the shining new
2.3 DOHC + A4LDE is ready to be lifted in. I have taken a vast amount of photos
of the project and will continue to do so and eventually write a project description
and put it on my web pages.

Edit: The engine & transmission now removed. Quite a job
to be carried out in a small garage, phew! Would not
have been able to do this so quickly without the help of
the documents on this site, so thanks again!

Next step is parting the engine from the transmission
and from the front suspension.

Anyone done this sort of thing before? I mean the conversion
from 24V to 16V.

Edit 2: 07/21/07 20:18
The new engine is now awaiting a few missing parts.
The project has gone well this far and only minor changes
has been made to the wiring. I had to change the MAF
plug, but that's it so far. I'm also wondering the air temp.
sensor wiring, there seem not be suitable wiring for it...
The one that's close to the inlet manifold. Part No. 7129536.

Few things that need to be sorted before I can continue:
* A/C compressor is different and needs a new housing -
I think it's inverted in DOHC ? Anyone has knowledge on
this please chip in... I think I'm building a new housing for
it.
* The engine "support bars" the ones that connect the
engine to the chassis (Can't come up with the correct
word for it now) has to be changed. Both of them.

But everything is looking quite good at the moment. I've
cleaned the engine room and fixed some wiring, cleaned
multiplugs etc... renewed almost all of the vacuum system
and looking forward getting the new engine in. I just
don't have glue where to get the missing parts, except
from Ford with the price tag of a new imported car from
Germany! :D

I also need a new resonance chamber and a hose to
connect it to the MAF housing. The Cossie parts are
BIGGER and size does matter in this case :)

Edit: 07/23/07 11.00 am
Gosh... The engine support bars - end of production, but
managed to get the left one! It'son its way, but I don't know when it is here. Project on hold - did a headlamp
mod while waiting, thanks to Richard_MS for the tip.
Now also waiting for the new headlamp glasses :)