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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> Diff "Upgrade" ;D
        
(Message started by: Highlander on Nov 16^th, 2006, 7:04pm)

Title: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by Highlander on Nov 16^th, 2006, 7:04pm

Got my 2.0 litre (4.27) Diff ready to go into the 24v tomorrow, oil changed and cleaned up ready to go.

Dunno how the mpg will be though ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by Matt on Nov 16^th, 2006, 7:08pm

is that the LSD one?

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by Highlander on Nov 16^th, 2006, 11:13pm

No, just a different ratio, will give it a bit quicker acceleration but lower top end speed.

Though i dont think i'll miss only being able to do 120 instead of 140 ;D

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by TiberiuS on Nov 17^th, 2006, 12:21am

I'll be there with my speed radar ;) ;D

Good luck with it, I still think you'll go back to the 3.91 once you've tried it out, I would miss my nice relaxed 70mph cruise speed ;)

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by Highlander on Nov 17^th, 2006, 8:56am

I wont be speeding, just accelerating ;D

Its a 3.64 in the 24v the 3.91 is from the 2.3

I did toy with the idea of putting the the 4.27 in a diesel which is 3.36 now that would make it quick off the mark! ;D

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by howiedintheplace on Nov 17^th, 2006, 10:42pm

That diff would be no good in a oil burner matey, espically a manual ;)

Basically everything 24V performance wise will be better with the 16V diff including top speed ;)

BUT MPG will be pretty bad & the car will not be as refined.

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by mazzy_j on Nov 17^th, 2006, 11:46pm

Quote:

I did toy with the idea of putting the the 4.27 in a diesel which is 3.36 now that would make it quick off the mark!

First gear is already quite short as it is, if you rev it enough and time the clutch just right the diseasel can be suprisingly quick off the mark!! (with the fueling and boost turned up ;)) Though you're more than welcome to suggest other ways of making the 'smoking slug' quicker ;D

Matt

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by Highlander on Nov 18^th, 2006, 8:45am

Well its in :) big big difference in acceleration. Roads were a bit wet and icy and it loses traction VERY easily now. Going long distance tomorrow so i.Ll keep an eye on the mpg. It is definitley not as refined Dave, any kind of throttle at all has it throwing you back in the seat. Having to learn a new gentle right foot approach for normal driving :)

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by mazzy_j on Nov 18^th, 2006, 12:29pm

Quote:

any kind of throttle at all has it throwing you back in the seat

Such a shame ;D }{ }{ }{

Sounds like i may have to find one of those diff's when i stick the manual box in mine ;D

Matt

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by Highlander on Nov 18^th, 2006, 2:29pm

Did about 150 miles today with plenty "testing" mpg around 22 mark. Will keep monitoring it and post results. Revs sit around 500 higher at the same speed than with the normal diff

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by TiberiuS on Nov 18^th, 2006, 4:21pm

I thought both the 2.3 auto and 24v had the same diff, they share the same autobox and I thought engine speeds were the same, is the 24v taller?

Only other thing, what about the speedo? Does it read right on the new diff?

Happy speeding (sorry, accelerating within the legal limit ;))

Regards, Bruce ;)

EDIT: Ahhh, mine does have the 3.91 diff, the speedo must be lying :(. Has anybody ever tried the 4.27 on the 2.3 auto by any chance? ;D

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by howiedintheplace on Nov 18^th, 2006, 5:47pm

I think you will find that the MPG won't be much worse around town but once on the motorway etc it will be bad as your doing more rpm for the same speed. More revs = more fuel.

Matt
The diff is no good for a manual box but is a real performance boost behind a auto.

I would expect highlander to do a 0-60 1 sec quicker than STD & pull a lot faster all the way to a proper 140mph.

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by Highlander on Nov 19^th, 2006, 12:22am

Changed the VSS for a 2.0 one to correct the speedo, it ran about 15% above actual speed before that was done.

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by Highlander on Nov 20^th, 2006, 12:54am

Another couple of hundred miles done and the mpg seems to be settling down to a steady 22 which was a lot better than i was expecting. I think possibly the engine isn't working as hard under acceleration to get the car up to speed as its effectively in a lower gear. Does that seem a sensible assumption? :) mind you it has been driven fairly hard too over those miles. Mostly A roads 50-70 not a lot of motorway miles. The car does lose traction earlier when cornering under acceleration than it did before, i assume because the wheels are turning faster than normal. Did a bit testing on the old runway beside me today on the 0-60 time Dave with a stopwatch in the back seat watching the speedo so not too accurate but of the ten runs we tried they all fell between 6.1 and 6.5 which is slightly faster than you reckoned. Does that sound right? So... Next project now is to try and lay my hands on a certain 4.0 Explorer block ;)

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by howiedintheplace on Nov 20^th, 2006, 8:28am

Yeah it's amazing difference I know.

The 1 second difference I say is based on I know it will be at least that even if the engine is not quite running right.
MPG is a bit better thou, is that based on the computer or a proper fill the tank & work it out calculation?

Gearing is as important as the engine.

What you have done is increased the torque of the engine, torque is the ultimate force the engine can push you along, so that's why the difference.

Yes the engine does not have to work as hard as the gearing has now made it's life easier.

But what you should find is once in 4th the engine is reving higher so it must use more fuel.

The 24V is over geared.

You will find it will tow very well too ;)

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by Highlander on Nov 20^th, 2006, 10:49am

Yep, filled the tank and topped it up when we got back, speedo/milage appears to be reading spot on, it checks out over journeys and distances i know.

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by Highlander on Nov 20^th, 2006, 1:39pm

Insurance company say insurance premium stays the same as its a part from a lower powered model!!!

Now who would have thought that!! ;D

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by TiberiuS on Nov 20^th, 2006, 3:15pm

So, you're putting the old one back then? ::)

Sounds really good, giving the engine more torque can't be a bad thing, you may have started a trend here. I'm still wondering if it would benefit the 2.3, I know the 24v has more grunt but it always feels to me that the transmission is holding the bigger engines back, both 2.3 and 24v. I'd miss the low rev cruise but the car really struggles when I give it some throttle at 40-50mph, I know it's only a 150bhp block but it has a good amount of mid torque, should have more than I can squeeze from it at mid speeds without thrashing the hell out of it on kickdown.

I don't drive the car hard as a rule but mid range acceleration on a roads is its weakness, on the first part of one of the A roads here there is a passing lane after the roundabout for cars to overtake the slower vehicles, the Scorpio just can't pick up quick enough unless I really push it to the limit. Really bugs me :(.

Mabye I should let the 2.3 go and start looking for a good low mileage 24v...

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by Highlander on Nov 20^th, 2006, 3:24pm

The 4.27 would help it Bruce, it wouldnt be as much of a difference as I got as i went from a 3.64 to a 4.27 you would be going from a 3.91 to a 4.27 but it would be better ;D

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by howiedintheplace on Nov 21^st, 2006, 1:28am

You have increased your max wheel torque figure from about 2454 nm to 2879 nm.

A increase of 425 nm or 313 lbs of extra turning force to the wheels.

That's why it's now a bit of a hand full Highlander ;D

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by Geoff_W on Nov 24^th, 2006, 10:47pm

Any idea what difference this would make to a 12valve?

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by howiedintheplace on Nov 25^th, 2006, 12:08am

Will feel a bit nippier but nothing like the gains you get with multi valve engine like the 24V.

Title: Re: Diff "Upgrade" ;D
Post by twinturbo on Nov 25^th, 2006, 7:29pm

MY old XR4x4 ( well one of them... ) was converted to 2.9 from 2.0 keeping the 3.92 diffs. Made the car feel much quicker off the line...

TT