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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> 24v auto to manual conversion
        
(Message started by: cossielover on Nov 24^th, 2006, 2:01pm)

Title: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by cossielover on Nov 24^th, 2006, 2:01pm

has anyone converted 24v with bob engine to manual (especially 4x4) ? How hard is it to sort wiring from auto box?

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by TiberiuS on Nov 24^th, 2006, 4:32pm

I heard about someone attempting it when I first joined, not sure who it was though ;)

I'd say the wiring is the least of your worries, mating the manual box with the 24v will be the biggest challenge, I believe the 4x4 bits can be sourced from a Granada or Sierra.

howiedintheplace is the one to ask I think ;)

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by Highlander on Nov 24^th, 2006, 5:35pm

not heard of a 4x4 conversion but theres a couple of manuals out there

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by Matt on Nov 24^th, 2006, 6:43pm

i think mazzy_j was/has converted his

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by Kjetil S on Nov 24^th, 2006, 8:04pm

Doesn't howiedintheplace have a 4x4?

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by Geoff_W on Nov 24^th, 2006, 10:41pm

One of the guys at Harewood this year had a manual conversion to his Cosworth.

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by twinturbo on Nov 24^th, 2006, 10:55pm

Mating the 4x4 gearbox to the 24V is a not a problem at all.. Will bolt straight on with out any difficulty.

You would need the 4x4 Sump & Oil Pump. And need to moddify the Windage plate to clear the bulge in the side of the sump. Flywheel, Clutch, Starter and spigot bearing will aslo be needed and the sump needs modding to take the oil drains to the front.

That's the engine converted to 4x4..

Next you need to convert the front suspension.. I am not 100% on this yet but there are two options.

1) revert to the rear ARB setup with sierra/Granada 4x4 front suspension and 4x4 Crossmember. This should all fit up. And you would uses the 4x4 Engine mounts.

2) Try fitting 4x4 Hubs to the scorpio lower arms, but you also have the problme of clearing the engine cross member which may be impossible.

Next the wiring...

Well there has never been an EEC-V 24V Manaul, so the engine map may not respond well and you may get odd things going on.

Best bet would be to swap to third part management either CHEAP on megasquirt ot Expensive on some thing like MBE.

TT

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by howiedintheplace on Nov 25^th, 2006, 12:05am

TT has pretty well much covered it.

Remember the 24V engine is a 2.9 12V engine block.

A 2.9 12V was fitted to the Sierra XR4x4.

So if you get one of them you have most of the parts.

But I must ask are you converting a Scorpio 24V too 4x4 or are you fitting the engine into something else ;)

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by mazzy_j on Nov 25^th, 2006, 6:04pm

Yeh i'm in the middle of converting mine at de mo but its kinda of a long- term project as its not my day to day motor.

I have all the bits i need now along with the needed guidance from Dave (Thanks!!)

What you need is:

a gearbox and prop from a derv scorp
bellhousing and flywheel from a 12v 2.9 sierra
mt75 clutch
clutch bearing and fork
spigot bearing
and a pedal box

thats the main bits if i remember rightly. I'm taking my gearbox into work on monday because you need a very long socket to undo the shaft centre bolt (which i don't have), seeing as its where they train the new ford ~~monkeys~~ mechanics i would hope they have the bits i need!!

Then i have to see if the pedal box i have will fit in place of the auto box, and if not make it fit ;)

Hopefully should be done late spring sort of time ;D

Matt

p.s. Dave, i forgot to ask you but i can still use the 24v starter motor with the 12v flywheel can't I?

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by twinturbo on Nov 25^th, 2006, 7:32pm

I looked at my old BOA starter and my XR4x4 starter... There is a minor difference but that could be just manufactures differences.

TT

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by mazzy_j on Nov 25^th, 2006, 7:57pm

Ta, i think so longs as the flywheel has the right amount of teeth i hope it'll be ok. I know the 2.8 and 2.9 differ (i think??) I'll have a look on interford later and have a dig around...

Its not urgent at the rate i'm going ;)

Matt

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by hellblue on Nov 25^th, 2006, 9:07pm

2.8 & 2.9 flywheels only differ in weight 2.8 is the lighter one & if used will need a small gearbox mod as the release bearing has to sit further forward, the revs will build up quicker with the lighter flywheel.

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by cossielover on Nov 27^th, 2006, 12:24pm

Thanks for all the advice guys! To Howiedintheplace - I have 24v estate which I would like to convert - great car but gearbox lets it down. To Twinturbo - whats Megasquirt?

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by howiedintheplace on Nov 27^th, 2006, 1:33pm

As Gary says. Yes the 24V starter fits.

Cossielover I would try fitting the 2.0L 16V diff first, it may be enough for you & is as quick as a manual 24V if not quicker ;)

It's possible to make a auto 24V into a manual with steering wheel paddles for the change.

Very trick ;D

Just thought there is a difference in starters.
The later ones bolt up from the gearbox side.
The mt-75 starter is meant to bolt up from the engine side as the bell is threaded for it.
A simple enough task to fix but you might want to source a XR4x4 2.9 starter, they are cheap as chips on ebay after all.

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by TiberiuS on Nov 27^th, 2006, 7:42pm

Howie, a manual changer for the auto would be great, I agree also that a good auto is nearly always quicker off the mark than a manual. The diff ratios are too steep for the engines, they give a nice cruise but I feel I could make my 2.3 way better with another diff.

As Highlander has done, you could change the diff ratio and make it into a rocket, the Cossie block has bags of power but I felt myself it was held back by the 'box at mid speeds. That's the route I'd be taking, way cheaper than another make of car, 210 horses geared down like that is not to be sneered at :)

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by Highlander on Nov 28^th, 2006, 12:38pm

Yep stick the 4.27 diff in, it takes nearly 2 secs off the standard 0-60 time and it only takes an hour or two to do, the hardest thing is finding a diff :)
after that you'll need both hands free to hold on anyway ;)

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by cossielover on Nov 30^th, 2006, 4:12pm

Anybody got a 4.27 diff I could buy?????

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by Highlander on Nov 30^th, 2006, 11:21pm

Theres one on ebay for £175!!

I got mine off a scrapper i bought for spares (which cost £100!!)

That might be your cheapest option, no one seems to be breaking any 2.0 16v's on here just now.

Great fun though, Porsche Boxster performance for £100 and a couple of hours work ;)

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by Highlander on Nov 30^th, 2006, 11:28pm

Spoke too soon :)

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin3;action=display;num=1164926263;start=0#1

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by mazzy_j on Dec 12^th, 2006, 9:21am

Dave, tiene un problemo!

I may work at a Ford training centre which teaches the new monkeys (god help us all!!) and the new engineers etc, took the gearbox in to undo the large nut you need the long socket to undo, only they don't have the long socket! :( Where abouts would i be able to get hold of one? or is it a case of chopping a socket in half and welding a bit of pipe between the 2 halves (not what i really want to do).

Thanks, Matt

Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by howiedintheplace on Dec 12^th, 2006, 10:05am

Shame Matt
It's a 15 min job with the right tools.

Yeah get hold of a 46mm multi tooth socket chop it & then weld some pipe inbetween so it fits.
There is another tool that then pulls the front off which can be done with bars but be careful.

A how to guide is here.

http://www.fordpower-uk.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=895

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Title: Re: 24v auto to manual conversion
Post by mazzy_j on Dec 13^th, 2006, 8:31am

Had a bit of a result this morning ;D All it took was a bit more asking around nicely at work until eventually finding the right person to ask, who just so happens to possibly have one hiding in a cupboard somewhere, which he did. Looks like i'll be building my gearbox tomorrow 8)

Matt