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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> Steering clonk
        
(Message started by: jonnycab on Jan 23^rd, 2007, 1:28am)

Title: Steering clonk
Post by jonnycab on Jan 23^rd, 2007, 1:28am

I've noticed a clonk coming from the front recently.

Got under car briefly earlier & had a pull about.

It seems that the clonk is coming from the O/S track rod inner ball joint (under gaiter) as when I yank the track rod I can feel it.

Does this mean a new rack or I did read on the site about being able to change just the track rod.

Or is it possible the ball joint has dried out & just needs a generous helping of grease (probably wishful thinking).

Also, (the worst scenario), does anyone know how dangerous this can be & how long it may take for it to separate itself from the rack? :o

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by Octavian_P on Jan 23^rd, 2007, 7:50am

The track rods gave up on mine 2.3, if left so they can damage the steering rack which is way more expensive. The worst case scenario is to suddenly lose steering and one wheel goes left and the other one right.....

PS: do not forget to adjust the tracking after the replacement of the tracking rods ;)

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by Simmo on Jan 23^rd, 2007, 8:03am

JC, I think THIS (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/srackrepair.htm) is what you are thinking of. Hope it helps, Mike.

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by jonnycab on Jan 23^rd, 2007, 8:58am

Cheers guys :)

I'm gonna pop it down the garage & get their opinion ;)

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by jonnycab on Jan 23^rd, 2007, 10:12am

Does anyone know if the facelift 2.3 Ultima has speed sensitive steering ?

And are the auto & manual racks the same ?

Cheers :)

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by Highlander on Jan 23^rd, 2007, 10:22am

The speed sensitive one is for the 24v, the rest are all the same across the range

http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/steering-rack-display.php?txtmodel=Scorpio&txtmake=Ford&Submit=Next

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by mr._floppy on Jan 23^rd, 2007, 7:22pm

The component that simmo has highlighted , in the old rack and pinion systems in was customary to squirt some gear oil into the rack bellows to keep the rack and inner ball joint lubed.

Should we do the same with the Scorp ?

I don't see that mentioned in any maintenance literature.

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by Octavian_P on Jan 23^rd, 2007, 7:37pm

All the scorps have power assisted steering (PAS), so no oil needed in the steering rack. Simmo highlighted the ball joints i believe.

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by jonnycab on Jan 24^th, 2007, 12:24am

I've not had it seen to yet, but will be popping down the garage tomorrow.

Mr Floppy....I'm wondering whether you may have a good point there ;)

The steering doesn't wander & feels tight, but I can hear a clonk, & when grabbing the track arm, I can feel a clonk when I pull it hard.
But with the wheel jacked up, there is no noticable movement, & the track rod seems solid ???

I wonder if it may be a case that the ball joint has dried out....& is fine when cold....but once warmed up (friction) it is sticking ?

That would be a nice thought & a cheap fix.....but I am fearing the worst....just have to wait & see ;)

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by Octavian_P on Jan 24^th, 2007, 8:34am

There also could be something else, just happened on my cossie, i was experiencing a nasty clonking sound on the front left hand side, after changing the wishbone bushes, stabilizer bar bushes, stabilizer arm, the sound was still there, until we found the reason, The place where the steering rods end connects to the road wheel was a bit deformed as an oval, and the screw was not torqued properly and it was starting to have a play, now all is tight and well no strange sounds.

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by mr._floppy on Jan 24^th, 2007, 10:31am

My old Volvo 740 had a hellish squeak everytime the front N/S suspension moved up or down I investigated the shocks, springs, bearings, lower arm everything till I narrowed it down to a very dry track rod inner ball joint.
After squirting some gear oil into the rack bellows all was well again.

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by jonnycab on Jan 24^th, 2007, 2:36pm

Just got back from the garage....mechanic says it needs a new rack. It isn't just the track rod that's at fault, there is also too much play in the rack ???

Also, the O/S/F ball joint is moving up & down....so a new wishbone as well :(

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by Simmo on Jan 24^th, 2007, 2:58pm

That's bad luck JC. The link that Stuart has put up seems to have the racks at a reasonable price. Mine was about £145 from AMK through my local parts supplier. I'm sure you know that the details of how to do it are on the site if you need them. Good luck. MIke. ;)

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by jonnycab on Jan 24^th, 2007, 5:16pm

Cheers Simmo....but I reckon, unless the weather warms up a bit, I might just let the mechanic do it.
The thought of lying under the car for most of the day in sub zero temperatures doesn't seem that appealing ;)

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by jonnycab on Jan 26^th, 2007, 1:58am

Well it looks as though the weather's gonna improve a bit for the weekend :)

So I've bought all the bits & will be doing the work myself at the weekend......the garage wanted in the region of £250 labour + VAT ??? (couldn't give an exact figure).

If anyone is interested in the cost of the parts :-

....Steering rack - £198.50 from local motor shop
....2 track rod ends - £12.00 each from local motor shop
....Two wishbones - £104.50 each from FMD...(may as well do both while I'm at it).
....2x nut & bolts for front bushes & 2 nuts for ball joints - £4.50.

All the above prices are VAT included, so that's a total of .........£436.00 :o

Do you know that today was the first time I've actually opened the top of my steering reservoir (never needed to before, as level was always fine).......& the fluid is a green ???

Not a dirty green, but an almost luminous lime green......

......Would this be the original Ford spec fluid ?....if so, it's lasted 152,000 miles.

P.S...I'll be refilling the steering with new fluid. Is there any special refilling procedure ?

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by Simmo on Jan 26^th, 2007, 8:29am

Good luck JC. All the info you want is HERE (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/steermanual.htm). The proper way to cleanse the old fluid is by using special equipment. I would suggest you remove as much of the old fluid as possible as any 'debris' left in the system could affect the new rack. The only other thing I found on my 2ltr 16v was that I had to remove the anti-roll bar to get the rack out. There is a metal plate under the centre of the rack which just gets in the way!. When re-filling you need to have someone pouring the fluid once you start the car as the reservoir will drop instantly as the fluid is pumped round. Be prepared to switch off sharpish and start again so the system doesn't run dry. Once full the 'lock to lock' method will remove any air and if you keep the front wheels just touching the ground that will make life easy. ;)

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by martin_rowe on Jan 26^th, 2007, 8:46am

ford pas fluid is not green, the only green stuff I can think of at the moment is citroen lhm fluid, or the mineral stuff used in some rolls royce / bentleys. anti freeze can be luminous green as is hydrolastic suspension fluid. the usual colour of pas fluid is red.

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by jonnycab on Jan 27^th, 2007, 12:42pm

Just a quickie....

Does anyone know how tight the 18mm nut that holds the rear bush onto the wishbone should be ?.....I can't find it anywhere.

Cheers........

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by Highlander on Jan 27^th, 2007, 1:47pm

86 Nm on the diagram? Go down to number 40

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/suspension/RAxleLowerArm.pdf

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by jonnycab on Jan 27^th, 2007, 1:58pm

Cheers Stuart......sorry I may not have explained it right.

I mean't the 18mm nut on the rear bush of the front wishbone.....the one that screws onto the wisbone itself ;)

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by scorpio_man on Jan 27^th, 2007, 2:07pm

hi jc

is the one that holds the rear bush on? if so, just nip it up good and tight. it's not going to move about in the bracket.

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by jonnycab on Jan 27^th, 2007, 2:21pm

Cheers scorpio_man......that's what I did before...did it up tight......but I was wondering whether it needed to be that tight, as the wishbone seems to want to swivel inside the bush....if it is done up too tightly then the arm won't swivel as freely & put added pressure on the rubber surrounding it.. :-/

Or am I completely wrong ;)

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by scorpio_man on Jan 27^th, 2007, 2:32pm

hi there

if i remember correctly, you're tightening against the metal tube in the middle, so it shouldn't matter too much (i think ;D)

hth

btw, how many miles have you done since changing the rear bushes in november, seeing as the ball joints are now gone?

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by jonnycab on Jan 27^th, 2007, 2:49pm

.......btw, how many miles have you done since changing the rear bushes in november, seeing as the ball joints are now gone?

Probably about 4000 miles since November.

But the bushes are fine ;)

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by scorpio_man on Jan 27^th, 2007, 2:57pm

hi jc

i was trying to see if it was worth it just changing the bushes ( i think the only cure is a new wishbone).

4k miles would only be, say 6 months max normal use, so i don't think it's worth it. :-/

what do others think?

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by jonnycab on Jan 27^th, 2007, 3:08pm

Scorpio_Man.....The O/S ball joint was gone totally, & when taking off the N/S wishbone, it was evident that that one was very loose as well (so not long to go) :)

Both front bushes on the old wishbones don't seem to bad though, but obviously, I won't be re-using them ;)

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by scorpio_man on Jan 27^th, 2007, 4:57pm

hi jc

well that two of us that's had the same type of issue with the wishbones.

i changed both bushes (on each side) before changing the complete wishbones as the fix didn't last long. ruined 2 tyres as well! >:(

i now say you need to change the wishbone(s) if you find play in the bushes. the balljoints can't be far behind, imo. :(

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by jonnycab on Jan 27^th, 2007, 6:53pm

.... []..... :)

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by jonnycab on Jan 28^th, 2007, 7:32pm

All done.....wow!!......feels like a new car ;D

Title: Re: Steering clonk
Post by Simmo on Jan 28^th, 2007, 8:23pm

Well done JC. Glad you're sorted. ;)