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Title: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by DippyD on Mar 21st, 2007, 8:54pm My temperature gauge after reaching a nice midway point drops off to just above the cold occasionally returning to it's 'correct position'. Any ideas what might be going on? My AC seems to be doing everything right except bringing warm air into the car! Do you think the two things are related? |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by taliban on Mar 21st, 2007, 9:35pm mine does that, but it depends on speed etc, stuck in traffic it'll be midway, once i hit open road with cooler air it drops right down, as expected really.... |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by DippyD on Mar 21st, 2007, 9:45pm Thanks, thats encouraging. Just got to get on top of that AirCon issue and I think I've nailed most of the big concerns. It's my first Scorp (picked it up a couple of days ago) ...and really enjoying it... |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by harry.m1byt on Mar 21st, 2007, 11:17pm That is odd, mine (2.9 12v) rises extremely rapidly upto the mid point and stays there steady as a rock - irrespective of outdoor temperature or running conditions. Which apart from the rapid rise, is what I would expect it to do. If it did vary as you both seem to describe, I would be looking to change the thermost. I have had cars in the past, where it was possible as the car warmed up from cold, to spot the opening of the stat on the gauge. It will slowly rise up to the set point of the stat, then as the stat opened it would fall back with the in rush of cooler water from the rad, then rise back again to settle at the mid way point for rest of the entire journey - but I'm not seeing the effect on the Scorp, it just goes up in one single movement and stops. |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by ferretmobile on Mar 22nd, 2007, 12:25pm My guage used to go walkabouts... go up to mid way and then down again. I had the thermostat changed and the sender unit. Result, the guage goes up to midway and stays there regardless of weather conditions. My advise is to change these and this will solve your problem ;) HTH, ferret. 8) |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by taliban on Mar 22nd, 2007, 12:50pm ahem, i dont see it as a problem, personally i think it should go up and down with driving conditions, as long as it stays within the 'normal running temp' area, stands to reason that if you're stuck in traffic on a warm day it will rise to the halfway mark and maybe the top third, then when you hit a motorway the velocity of cooler air will cause the temp to drop to the bottom third, unless its 90 degrees out like last summer. every motorbike i've owned does this, my current suzuki has digital temp gauge, if im stuck in traffic it'll rise to 107, the fan comes on, it drops too 100, then i hit open road, it drops to where it should be, around 78, its perfectly normal...... |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by DippyD on Mar 22nd, 2007, 1:38pm Thanks. Think I'll try changing the Thermostat and see how that goes. Not sure again if this is related but just lost all electrics on dash and engine cut out whilst cruising down the motorway!! I have horn, hazards , central locking and that's about it, luckly managed to get into hard shoulder and bring the car to a safe postion. I've only had this a few days... Any ideas where i start? Already checked fuses for eec v ignition module and ignition lock. |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by taliban on Mar 22nd, 2007, 2:02pm before this happened have you disconnected the multiplug from the aux fuse box (drivers side) at any time? it sounds like a classic case of the multiplug not being seated correctly, everyones done it, you think its seated properly but it isnt, if it seats first time.....it aint seated properly, it has lugs on the rear as well as the front...... |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by DippyD on Mar 22nd, 2007, 2:27pm Not technical enough to know what that multiplug looks like!! Sorry. I did add a relay (which was missing in the glove box)) to bring the 'Automatic Cruise Control' back to life along with a replacement ash tray and headlight switch. Car drove for about 80 miles or so before todays breakdown. Both fuse box covers were off at some stage over the past couple of days though. Are you suggesting that I need to replace that 'Multiplug'? Hoping it's that simple.. |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by Simmo on Mar 22nd, 2007, 2:41pm Have you left the fusebox covers off at any time and possibly got water in them ? 'cos that will cause all manner of problems. The central (Drivers side) fusebox has a large multiplug connector which needs to be correctly seated as Taliban says..... he just got the name wrong :o.... ;D..... The auxillary fusebox is by the battery but they must both have the lids fitted and a battery cover in place to prevent water ingress. There are also drain holes in the bulkhead which need to be kept clear of leaves etc to allow water to escape. Check the wiring to the ashtray light to make sure is is not shorting and the multiplug connector the the light switch. Could be that in the process of changing these items something has been disturbed. May also be worth removing the relay to see if that helps. May be it was missing for a reason!. |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by DippyD on Mar 22nd, 2007, 3:05pm thanks simmo. I've only had the car a few days so don't know if the fuse compartments have been looked after. I'll remove the relay as suggested and check the wiring as you suggest. Somewhere there's a fuse blown and i cant see it!! Cant check anything till I've found that i guess... The previous owner had a new battery fitted a couple of months ago and I did notice after I'd broken down today that the negative cables weren't very well secured! |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by scorpio_man on Mar 22nd, 2007, 4:25pm hi there also check the wiring behind the ashtray. hth |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by DippyD on Mar 22nd, 2007, 5:34pm What would the symtoms be if it turns out the fuse box by the battery had been damaged by rain? There was only a plastic bag covering the battery and fuse box when i got it and it did rain last night down here in Bristol. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by taliban on Mar 23rd, 2007, 11:07pm all sorts can happen with that scenario craig, from the ignition light staying on when the key is removed to indicators staying on. get a battery cover, they cost under a tenner, you can dry the fuse boxes out with a hairdryer if the damage isnt too bad. make sure the drain holes under the battery area are unblocked, the fusebox on the other side tends to get leaves etc building up between it and the wing, clear this out as there is a vent slot in the fuse box that side......which is really helpful ::) |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by DippyD on Mar 23rd, 2007, 11:41pm Thanks again for the advice. Had a auto sparky look at the car this morning. Turns out it was just a 25 amp Ignition fuse that had blown and the 'multiplug not in correct position!!!. It was actually a new cruise control relay that was causing my strange head light problem. Have removed the relay and things have settled down. He also cleaned up some wiring behind the ash tray left behind from a hands free kit which he things may have contributed to the fuse blowing. Just got hold of a 7000 radio and I think I'll have him back to fit that aswel as check out the cruise control relay and a list of other electrical gremlins like no interior lighting, not back lighting on headlight contol switch or centre vent as well as door light not working!! But I think I'm getting there. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by harry.m1byt on Mar 24th, 2007, 12:12pm on 03/22/07 at 12:50:31, taliban wrote:
Over my lifetime I have personally owned around 30 cars and had additional exclusive use of around another 20 of so. None of them behaved as you describe above - without some fault being present either in the gauge or the cooling system. The idea of the water jacket thermostat is to closely control the temperature within fairly tight limits. It doesn't open and close once up to temperature, it closes a little and opens up a little to control the flow through the system to exactly balance heat input against the available cooling. It is an analogue thing, rather than an on/off digital. The cooling fans are a slightly different kettle of fish, in as much as they do have switching hysterisis of several degrees. So the changes of temperature would likely be noticed on the gauge itself. However this condition would be obvious from the noise made by the fans. Remember the cooling fans only provide the radiator with additional cooling capacity, so they could not normally produce the effect of cooling the water below the set point of the thermostat in the cooling system. In other words from cold the indicated temperature should rise to the set point of the thermostat, stabilise there and not move throughout the entire journey. Should the weather be extremely hot and the car stationary, then it is possible the radiaotor may not be able to dispose of the heat quick enough - the indicated temperature may rise and the fans should cut in, bring the indicated temperature on the gauge back to its usual reading. My experience of Granadas suggests that its cooling system capacity without the fans was such that they would never ever be needed in the UK - all assuming the system is working as it was designed to. Certainly I would only ever expect them to be needed whilst not moving, the air flow alone should be much more than enough. The fans do however run slow speed, to provide cooling for the a/c 'radiator'. [ |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by taliban on Mar 24th, 2007, 9:56pm i wasnt really talking about the fans so much, i've never known them come come on, but i would expect the temp to rise and fall within the 'normal running temp limits' with driving conditions, i see it as basic physics; if you have a radiator (stationary) with hot fluid running through it it'll reach a temperature, and if the fluid is pumped through effectively and the rad is big enough the temp will be more or less stable, then blow air on it at a velocity of 70mph the temp will stabilise at a lower degree........ |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by sector-9 on Mar 24th, 2007, 11:04pm My diesel usually sits about half-way in normal use, rising to about 2/3rds when working hard (i.e. towing), and about 1/3rd when on the motorway for a while though it does fluctuate depending on engine load. If I let it roll in gear down a hill then the temperature can come right down to about 1/4, rising again as I give it some fuel. This appears to be normal for every 'old' diesel I've driven. I disconnected the fan relay and timed how long it took for the temp warning light to come on if left idling. Basically it didn't unless I held it at a fast idle for about 15 minutes, though of course the fans would usually have cut in long before that point. I don't see any of the above being a problem; whether the gauge rises and falls enough to be noticeable depends on how quickly it reacts to the changing sensor input - most deliberately react quite slowly so you won't see much movement unless the change is prolonged (same with the fuel gauge so it doesn't bounce up and down every time you brake or corner). If you want to see what's really happening in real-time with the coolant temperature then use the dashboard diagnostics and you'll see that it's constantly varying. Darren |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by harry.m1byt on Mar 25th, 2007, 9:32am on 03/24/07 at 23:04:42, sector-9 wrote:
Curious about my 2L petrol Granadas fans which I had never heard run in anger, on the hotest day of the year a few years ago and straight after a fast 100 mile run, I ran it into my garage blanking the radiator off and leving it idling whilst I kept an eye on it. It took it a good 30 minutes before the first fan kicked in and a lot of persuasion to get it hot enough for the second one to kick in. I knew the fans worked because I had tested them, but they just never came on in use. A diesel is even more thermally efficient, which is why they take much longer to get up to temperature. My diesel takes ten miles at this time of year from cold, to get upto a stable temperature. My 2.9 V12 Scorps gauge shoots up like a rocket, to the mid point and stays there. It has noticeably moved, before I have even got it out of the drive. By the time I get to the end of our street it is well on the way to the mid point and before I have driven half a mile to the boundary of the village it is up to temperature and settled [1] - never to budge again even a smidgen. It settles with the needle horizontal, such that I can just see horizontal line of the ripple of water of the temperature symbol printed on the guage. I agree there is some damping of the needle, probably the damping would take the needle one second to move from end to end of the guage. The damping is electronic, rather than by mechanical means (sticky grease) - obvious because the guages can move at full speed to indicate a faulty battery. Checking the panel diagnostics diplay, I have seen that reading wandering up and down slightly, may be 2 or three degrees and quite quickly - Not enough nor slow enough to be even noticed on the normal guage. Much of this aspect can depend on the engine design, where the temperature is measured and the quality of the thermostat. [1] I was when I first got it, initially quite surprised by this cars speed of warm up and ability to produce heat in the cab from cold. My first thought was that it was heat being produced by the a/c working in reverse, though now I know it cannot do this. My gauge was not at that time working reliably due to a a poor connection at the engine multi-plug. If my guage did indeed wonder about, I would be looking for the cause of its wondering - Sticking thermostat, cooling system choked up, or a problem with the guage itself or even a badly designed point of taking the measurement. My cars maintenance prior to my buying it seems to have been impecable. Cooling system is spotlessly clean inside, not a sign of any sludge or rust etc. which can cause problems. My motorcycle has a badly designed point of taking the measurement and its gauge never gets above the cool indication. |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by sector-9 on Mar 25th, 2007, 5:15pm Don't forget the diesel has a smaller cooling capacity than the petrol ones (smaller radiator to accomodate the intercooler beside it) and the turbo will raise combustion temperatures very quickly when it spins up. It also has an oil-air cooling system to share some of the load. I've found that the point where my thermostat opens is a little below the half-way mark (this is how far it gets initially from cold, before dropping down again and finally climbing to half way, and is where it settles during gentle cruising). Enthusiastic use of the turbo can push the gauge above half-way, but the temperature warning light has never come on whilst driving and I don't expect it to unless towing in a heat wave. Darren |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by DippyD on Mar 25th, 2007, 7:19pm Interesting comments about the thermostat I must say.. I'm off work this week and intend on making a visit to Fords to pick up a new thermostat along with some other bits and pieces. In my origonal post I mentioned along with the suspicious temp gauge, I was unable to get any heat into the car. I've noticed that the two black rubber pipes that run along the top of the engine and which I'm reliably informed are part of the heating system weren't actually very hot and could be grabbed with bare hand even after a good run. Are there some guidelines on the site which might help me identify were my problem might be? e.g how do i 'flush out' the a/c system of any possible 'sludge' as was mentioned above. |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by taliban on Mar 25th, 2007, 7:35pm spoke to a mechanic mate about this today through curiosity, his answer was as i thought, all engines' temp will rise and fall depending on use, as long it stays within the 'normal range' there's no problem. he then talked about thermostats and said they only get 2 faults; 1....they stay or get jammed open which results in the coolant constantly circulating the rad and therefore the engine takes forever to get up to normal temp if at all 2.... they stay shut which means the coolant just circulates the engine jacket and never makes to the radiator, the result of which is the engine will overheat. he also said thermostats normally have the temp they open at on them. it could be that owners who notice no change in temp with the needle gauge is due to them being quite vague, a cold section, a big normal temp section, and the red section, too hot. as someone suggested earlier maybe if you check the temp using the odometer button you will see the variance more clearly...... |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by harry.m1byt on Mar 25th, 2007, 9:23pm on 03/25/07 at 19:19:47, DippyD wrote:
Your heater matrix is blocked up with sludge - hence with no flow through it, both pipes are cool. If that is blocked likely your radiator might be similar and causing it not to be able dispose of the heat as well as it should. Another possibility is that one of the pipes has collapsed internally obstructing the flow. I have no experience of it, but in a current thread on the site, someone suggested Wynns works quite well to clear out the crud from cooling systems. |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by harry.m1byt on Mar 25th, 2007, 10:07pm on 03/25/07 at 19:35:53, taliban wrote:
I have seen gauges which rise up from cold, then as the stat opens fall suddenly back, then rise steadily back to their settling point - my Granada did this. I have seen ones where they have cooling problems and under duress they do rise until the fan cuts in. I have seen ones with no stat where the temperature has wondered about the cool section. But never have I seen one which with everything properly working as it should, has moved once up to its settled temperature. This is one of those things I pay carefull attention to - I really would be concerned if the gauge did this and would be looking for a reason for it. Possible reasons being a bad stat. A choked up cooling system, an airlock in the system or even a problem with the guage, sensor or wiring. As you suggest most stats have a temperarture marked upon them and there are two possible common failure modes, dependant upon type. The Waxstat failing safe, or in the open position - but I have seen a third one where the stat appears to stick and not control the temperature accurately. Why otherwise would the temperature wonder about when a properly working stat is free to open or close itself to any position between fully open and closed to perfectly match the heat which needs to be disposed of? I will agree that often the settling point of a guage might not necessary be precisely on the mid point, but I look for stability of the needle where ever it settles as a standard diagnostic for the cooling system having no problems - with perhaps a rare excursion into the hot end of the range under exceptionally hot conditions prior to the fan cutting in. |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by taliban on Mar 25th, 2007, 10:59pm ahhh, think i may have sussed it, think we're talking slightly crossed threads; when i say my gauge moves (depending on conditions) i dont mean it jumps about or moves suddenly, quite often it doesnt move from midway at all, i.e. on my way to work where its just a short steady suburban drive, but as an example i went to oxford the other week leaving early, hit traffic in london, gauge stayed at mid point. once i got onto the m40 where the road was open and the air was cold with frost, it dropped over a period of a couple of minutes or so, steadily not jerky to the bottom third and remained constant which is what would expect with cold air flowing around the rad and engine bay. i've had the car just over a year and havent had any cooling probs with it, i flushed the system albeit with clean water only and refilled with the correct amount of coolant last summer, there was no noticeable difference afterwards and all the heating etc works fine....... |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by jonnycab on Mar 25th, 2007, 11:33pm Taliban...if the temp needle is in the middle, but drops at speed...then surely the thermostat is at fault ? The cold wind rushing through the rad at 80mph will cool the rad & the water in it, but the thermostat...being the intelligent little b****r that it is...should start to close up when the cool water starts passing through it....thus keeping the needle constant :) |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by Kjetil S on Mar 26th, 2007, 1:09pm on 03/25/07 at 23:33:40, jonnycab wrote:
[] I had the exact same symptom when my stat had seized open. It would heat up and stay in the middle when it was hot outside or when idling, but once cold outside, it would struggle to get much beyond blue. Changed the stat and now it's dead center no matter what I do. |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by harry.m1byt on Mar 26th, 2007, 4:07pm on 03/25/07 at 22:59:55, taliban wrote:
Despite what your mechanic might say, it shouldn't move at all once it has settled at what ever point it settles. The only exception is when it is so hot that the fan is required to provide the extra cooling. If that is what you guage is doing, then consider replacing the stat for a new one. |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by harry.m1byt on Mar 26th, 2007, 4:12pm on 03/25/07 at 23:33:40, jonnycab wrote:
Exactly my point and it should close up just enough to ensure the temperature is kept at the optimium one for the engine. In fact the stat should be moving constantly as the heat needing to be disipated varies dependant upon the engine load and how quickly the radiator is able to dissipate it. |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by taliban on Mar 26th, 2007, 8:04pm well lots of us watch it happening every week and its expected to happen; its called formula 1, motogp, wsb, bsb when they finish the warm up lap and pull up on the grid they want the race to start asap, why? because their engines will cook if they sit there, they want the cooling air passing through the rads........ok they're race engines, well most of em, and vary vastly, but the principles the same |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by taliban on Mar 26th, 2007, 8:07pm the temp doesnt drop at speed harry, its constant noy jerky and takes a while to drop where it settles still within the optimum range....... |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by harry.m1byt on Mar 26th, 2007, 8:30pm on 03/26/07 at 20:04:31, taliban wrote:
Precisely, they are race engines - not designed to cope with all the various heat disposal needs varying between sitting around in traffic jams to 90mph up the M1. Piston engined aircraft are the same, without the speed through the air they rapidly overheat. Your Scorp is designed to cope with most operating conditions, in most weathers and under all but extreme conditions should be able to maintain a stable engine coolant temperature irrespective of operational conditions. Just stick a new stat in it :-) Big engines fitted with a minimal cooling system only intended to be useful at extremely high speed. Are they even fitted with cooling fans? |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by taliban on Mar 27th, 2007, 9:26pm right, i've had enough of this subject ::) so, my last words are; my scorp does not have a cooling/heating problem, the stat works fine, the temp gauge behaves as i expect it too with different conditions, apart from when its first warming up the temp never goes outside the optimum temp range, nor does it ever jerk, dance about, flicker, drop or rise suddenly. it behaves exactly the same as any other car i've had (where i've bothered looking at the temp) and exactly the same as every motorbike i've ridden; suzukis, hondas, yamahas, kawazaki, ducati, aprillia, triumph, cagiva, ktm, husqvarna, i would add mz, but that didnt count as it was air cooled ::), quite a lot were brand new as i worked in a bike shop........... |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by taliban on Mar 27th, 2007, 9:30pm ok, one more word..... Big engines fitted with a minimal cooling system only intended to be useful at extremely high speed. Are they even fitted with cooling fans? dont know so much about f1, but have you seen the size of race bike rads? they're huuuuuuuuuge.......very expensive too......... |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by harry.m1byt on Mar 30th, 2007, 9:17pm Five vehicles here, all with wet cooling systems, all with guages, one a bike. All of the guages rise to the optimum running temperature then sit there - without moving any more, irrespective of the air temperatures due to the weather. The bike has the greater need for the fan to cut in, in static conditions (hot weather, stood in traffic) - that is the only time the guage shows any movement. The V4 16V bikes gauge sits permanently on the bottom edge of the green section (which is standard for this bike) - it can move up to the mid reading when stood, at which point the fans kick in and bring it back down to its usual place on the guage. All bike parts tend to be very expensive. :( My parting shot on this rather interesting subject.... There is not much point in stamping a marking upon a thermostat with for instance a precise 88 deg C, if the cooling system is intended to keep the engine at just somewhere between 80 to 98 deg. If there are no problems with the system, it should hold the water at that precise temperature. It is not a central heating boiler, turning on/off in responce to a mechanical thermostat which has some built in hysteris to prevent the boiler cycling, hence the room temperature will vary slightly - A car radiator stat is a type of thermostat which has the ability to settle at any point between open and closed, at what ever level of opening holds the precise and stable temperature, there is no hysterisis in the system. Why with such a precise method to control the temperature, should the gauge move at all? |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by taliban on Mar 31st, 2007, 9:23pm the fans dont come into it on bikes, as i said every bike i've ridden will rise to normal, then drop on open roads at greater speed, but only down to within the normal operating temperatures. the only time the fans cut in is when as you say stuck in traffic, but only to stop the engine overheating, which is basically what they're for.... 'Why with such a precise method to control the temperature, should the gauge move at all? ' but its not that precise, yes the stat itself is precise with the temp it opens at, but it cannot keep an engine at a precise temp if the conditions change i.e. hit the open road, cold air through the rad and around the engine bay etc, but it will do what its meant too, keep the engine within an optimum range. oh gawd i said i wouldnt say anymore lol ::) |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by taliban on Mar 31st, 2007, 9:24pm the bike being a honda vfr? |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by harry.m1byt on Apr 1st, 2007, 2:03pm on 03/31/07 at 21:23:17, taliban wrote:
The stat should open a little at the set temperature, then adjust itself precisely to whatever opening it needs to maintain the correct temperature. That is irrespective of engine operational conditions and any variation in cooling effect from the radiator. The temperature is measured at the engine side of the cooling system, adjacent to the 'stat, with at the other side the radiator. Only the quantity of water needed to maintain the precise tempterature is permitted to pass through the stat no more/no less. So outside influences should make no difference to that balance within limits and the guage should be stationary assuming everything is working as it should. I fail to understand quite why you think it should be any different. Engine heat rises, the stat immediately opens a little more to compensate and additional water flow through the rad. The air temperature cools or the car moves a little faster through the air, the stat closes a little to compensate. Result - the gauge should never usually budge once settled. |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by tintin on Apr 1st, 2007, 4:58pm wow, this is a debate and a half ;D for my tuppences worth, all the cars i have owned (only 8) have risen to a set point and not moved. if they start rising and falling, i know there is a problem (in my case usually a broken radiator, 3 in the last year !). it would indicate an issue somewhere with the cars cooling system, i would say, if it cant regulate the temperature. my understanding is that if the thermostat stuck open, then the engine would get 100% cooling from the system whether it needed it or not, so would struggle to ever reach normal temperature, but not overheat. if the thermostat is stuck shut it will just overheat, as no cooling will be provided. stuck part open, overcool at low temps (slow to reach normal), under-cool at load (overheat in traffic) so that would produce a fluctuating temperature. of course, i have never owned a diesel, or towed, so i cant say in those cases ;D |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by harry.m1byt on Apr 1st, 2007, 10:05pm on 04/01/07 at 16:58:34, tintin wrote:
I hate to loose, when I know I am right ;D Quote:
Diesels, due to their better thermal efficiency and heavier mass tend to be slower to get to their stable temperature, other than that... Once there, they too don't budge. Towing the engine will be generating more power and more waste heat, but as the cooling system should be designed to cope with the maximum waste heat of the engine - the temperature should still be the same. My gauge never budged during the 300 miles I recently towed. Nor have I seen the gauges on any of my previous cars move whilst towing in the 100k miles I have towed, irrespective of the conditions I have towed under. |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by harry.m1byt on Apr 1st, 2007, 10:09pm on 03/31/07 at 21:24:35, taliban wrote:
VFR750 F-V, in green (the fastest colour) They are noted for the guage never moving from the bottom of the normal end of the scale. |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by taliban on Apr 1st, 2007, 11:14pm VFR750 F-V, in green (the fastest colour) They are noted for the guage never moving from the bottom of the normal end of the scale. an older bike, none the less a good one. i once owned a vf 750, an interesting bike that handled like a fattened pig on ice skates thanks to the broken rear shock, funnily enough that bikes temp gauge didnt move much, which is basically down to it being a needle gauge which only states vague temperatures within regions. try a bike with a digital temp gauge, they're very accurate, doesnt matter what make or model (as long as its liquid cooled of course) and you'll see vast differences in the temp depending on conditions. in fact, the honda sp1 and sp2 are reknowned for it due too the side mounted rads not getting the air flow that front mounted rads do........ |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by sector-9 on Apr 2nd, 2007, 10:46pm Sorry, you're wrong! :P :-* The thermostats commonly is use today have a wax filled capsule and which opens the valve when the wax melts, and shuts it again when it solidifies. The fact that the thermostat opens and closes relatively slowly depends on how quick the wax changes state (which depends on how much of it is exposed to the flow of coolant). Because it uses this methods of control, the thermostat will either be in the process of opening, or in the process of closing at any point whilst the engine is at 'normal' temperature and will be constantly moving back and forth slightly in response to the changing coolant temp. The rating stamped on the 'stat is the temperature at which the wax begins to melt and is given as the "begins to open at..." temerature. Obviously, whilst the coolant is below this temperature the wax will remain solid and the valve closed. Once the coolant surrounding the capsule reaches the specified temperature the wax will begin to melt (like butter in an oven) and the valve will open. The then cooled coolant will circulate back round to the thermostat and cause the wax to solidify, thus starting the valve to close. Should the coolant remain at or above the melting point of the wax then the thermostat will remain open until the above is true. The above is all explained in V.W. Hillier's "The fundamentals of motor vehicle technology" - an old book now but fascinating nonetheless... Darren |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by tintin on Apr 3rd, 2007, 9:11am ;D cant be that old, it was all bimetallic strips on my cars (including the current mini) interesting about the wax, didnt know how the modern ones work. so how do they "break"? does the wax escape? or just stop melting? |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by taliban on Apr 4th, 2007, 4:52pm think they corrode and stick tintin..... |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by taliban on Apr 4th, 2007, 4:54pm i might not be about for a while, pooter broken, new motherboard needed :-[.........using internerd cafe...... |
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Title: Re: Temperature Gauge Query... Post by scorpio_man on Apr 4th, 2007, 4:58pm cheer up. usually it's the car that breaks! ;D }{ |
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