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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> How NOT to change injectors
        
(Message started by: dogma on Apr 1^st, 2007, 10:23pm)

Title: How NOT to change injectors
Post by dogma on Apr 1^st, 2007, 10:23pm

Can i just say to anyone who is planning on changing injectors to seriously concider there sanity first. I recently bought a set of low milage ones and after stripping the parts down i pulled out the old ones, popped in the new ones, and rebuilt it. Great until i turned on the ignition and found all the cubby holes under the fuel rail filling with fuel. I stripped down again, pulled them back out, checked andreplaced, and tried again, and agin more petrol. After 4 attempts i did it but found there is so much play (in i mean the injectors can move up and down reasonably freely) that its difficult to find a perfect fit where they dont leak.
Have i done something wrong here or is this the norm for fitting these. I had new 'o' ring seals so wasnt them.
jim

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by Spannerdemon on Apr 2^nd, 2007, 4:28pm

Did you renew the Plenum Chamber AND Fuel Rail Gaskets? Both gaskets are essential.

Also, there are 2 x 'O' Rings on each injector. Did you renew the rings at both ends?
It's recommended that you smear each ring with engine oil to aid fitting.

Hope this helps. ;)

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by dogma on Apr 2^nd, 2007, 5:18pm

Hi spannerdemon, i changed the injector O rings but fords wanted a lot for the plenim chamber gasget and the one for the fuel rail so i used hermatite red, i know its the wrong way but i had a day to do it and fords said it could take up to a week for the gasgets, seems ok tho
jim

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by Spannerdemon on Apr 2^nd, 2007, 5:31pm

Obviously without the proper gaskets, I don't know what effect that could have, but, wherever possible, I always cut my own anyway. A good set of hole punches, (from say 2mm up to 22mm, a couple of sharp craft knives, and a selection of varying gasket papers is really a good investment. Just draw them out, and using the tools as neccessary, you can get a really professional finish..........even when all the shops are shut, or they are out of stock.

Much cheaper than buying gaskets all the time!! ;D

Has it stopped pouring fuel now? Sometimes the injectors just need to 'settle in' again. 8)

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by dogma on Apr 2^nd, 2007, 7:43pm

Pretty sure they have mate, at least its not turned into something from the ghost rider yet with flames coming out lol, strange thing is tho, the car now seems to be running ok, idle is perfect and no flooding after traffic. May just be having a good day but time will tell
jim

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by Baz on Apr 2^nd, 2007, 8:24pm

on 04/02/07 at 17:31:16, Spannerdemon wrote:

A good set of hole punches, (from say 2mm up to 22mm, a couple of sharp craft knives, and a selection of varying gasket papers is really a good investment. Just draw them out, and using the tools as neccessary, you can get a really professional finish..........even when all the shops are shut, or they are out of stock.

Half expected a picture with "Here's one I made earlier" underneath!

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by harry.m1byt on Apr 2^nd, 2007, 9:52pm

on 04/02/07 at 17:31:16, Spannerdemon wrote:

Just draw them out, and using the tools as neccessary, you can get a really professional finish..........even when all the shops are shut, or they are out of stock.

Much cheaper than buying gaskets all the time!! ;D

I generally do make my own , that is all except for the very large ones and the specialised ones like head gaskets. I use all sorts of materials from brown wrapping paper to cornflake packets. I start by making a couple of location holes to prevent the gasket moving about, then use a very hot soldering iron to burn its way through for the studs and the shapes for the larger holes. Sometimes I can create the shape by gently tapping with a small hammer along the metals sharp corners, but that needs lots of care to prevent damage to the metal.

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by dogma on Apr 2^nd, 2007, 9:58pm

Or use hermatite red with old ones lol

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by Spannerdemon on Apr 3^rd, 2007, 10:44am

Quote:

Half expected a picture with "Here's one I made earlier" underneath!

You should see what I can do with washing up bottles Baz!! My wife is still amazed!! ;D }{ ;D }{

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by cossie_al on Apr 3^rd, 2007, 12:56pm

When I did my mechanics training back in 19.........? we were actualy taught how to make gaskets using the hammer method :o

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by Spannerdemon on Apr 3^rd, 2007, 4:26pm

Yes I remember that too Al. Tap Tap Tap ever so gently with a small wooden hammer.
You wouldn't have DARED to use anything else, (copper mallet for example), and the taps had to be feather light!! Works well though.

Bet I've saved a small fortune over the years making my own. ;)

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by dogma on Apr 3^rd, 2007, 11:40pm

Last thing i made with a washing up bottle was a space ship when i was about 10, do you think i could qualify for a job with NASA, if not what do you make with one spannerdemon, im intreiged :-/

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by Spannerdemon on Apr 4^th, 2007, 6:11pm

Just for you mate!!

Don't ever submit to your curiosity when it urges you to investigate the effects of half a bottle of washing up liquid emptied into the cistern of a toilet; this is one situation where acting upon your primitive aggression is not such a great idea. Now, I know most of you would never dream of doing something so foolish, but nevertheless there is the possiblity that some of you may find yourselves gripped, as I was, by the need to experiment. To save you all a lot of hassle, I'm going to tell you what happens.

First of all, you lift the lid from the cistern and discharge a copious amount of washing up liquid into the water therein. Then, giggling with excitment (well, I was), you activate the flushing mechanism and as one would expect the water in the bowl foams up a great deal and it's all very hilarious.

You laugh for a while and then, your thirst for entertainment temporarily sated, you flush the toilet again to dispose of the foam. However, contrary to your intentions, the foam not only remains exactly where it is, it gets even foamier. You flush once more, and again the level of foamage grows yet more severe. At this point in the procedure your chuckles will begin to take on a mildly concerned tone. Another flush and the bubbles start to leak out from under the lid of the cistern; at this point you realise you may have done something a little dumb.

Determining to diagnose the cause of this inconvenience, you lift the lid of the cistern again. To your horror, you realise that the turbulence occuring in the water each time the cistern refills serves to replenish the bubbles. What's more, the foam will continue to expand, like some B-movie monstrosity, invading the bathroom floor and climbing up the wall behind the cistern. This phenomenon is of course pants-nutstingly funny, but also d**ned awkard to put a stop to, which is why I recommend you never try it.

If having read this, you simply must try it out, I promise you that you will find yourself in the situation predicted here. If you're at a loss with regard to what to do about it, just flush the toilet and once the cistern is empty use a towel or something to jam the ballthingy valve (yes, that's what it's called) in place thus preventing the cistern from refilling; then clean up what foam you can and leave it for a day or so. Doesn't sound like such a huge deal, but when you used to live with five people all sharing one bathroom, it is.

A nasty sort of person might see this as an ideal practical joke, but I wouldn't condone that sort of malicious behaviour at all. ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by cossie_al on Apr 4^th, 2007, 8:31pm

Sd,
That is so funny can hardly see the pc for the tears in my eyes.
But!
I also have fallen victim to the suds of washing up liquid.
My error came about when we ran out of dish washer tablets. "I little squirt of fairy liquid will do" said I. The worst part is I whent out to the shop leaving the dishwasher to its own devices when I returned the kitchen floor was covered by an eight inch foam carpet.
What a job I had cleaning up before her in charge of domestic matters got in.
You cant brush it or mop it, I ended up using our large free standing fan to blow it out the door. What a carry on

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by Dave on Apr 4^th, 2007, 9:27pm

on 04/04/07 at 20:31:55, cossie_al wrote:

You cant brush it or mop it, I ended up using our large free standing fan to blow it out the door. What a carry on

}{ Brilliant }{

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by dogma on Apr 4^th, 2007, 11:13pm

Spannerdemon, you are a terrible terrible man, just think how many poor people will have nightmares of the toilet monster after your dispicable story, well done ha ha ;D ;D

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by Spannerdemon on Apr 5^th, 2007, 4:20pm

I also remember, years ago, being at Blackpool Pleasure Beach when a group of lads had put a full 5 Litre container of washing up liquid into the Tunnel of Love.

The owner was actually jumping about with rage, calling them every name under the sun. I think he'd have killed them. Foamy waves were so high that they were blocking the entrance for the Swan-necked boats that sail through it.

One of the funniest things I've ever seen. The ride was closed for hours apparently. Poor sod must have lost a lot of money whilst he got it cleaned up.

And NO> It wasn't me................Honest!! }{ }{

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by cossie_al on Apr 5^th, 2007, 7:26pm

go on Sd you can be honest with us, promice we wont tell ;D

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by dogma on Apr 5^th, 2007, 8:48pm

And there was me thinking you was a innocent man SD {}, disgraceful i say ha ha {}, well bad news from my scorp yet again, could smell fuel today and lifted the bonnet to find a pool of fuel under one of the injectors :'(, ordered some new "O" ring seals from ford at a cost of 1.37 each :o, yes you heard rite, should be delivered by helicopter on sat at that price lol, how bloody difficult can the injectors be to fit, HARD i say lol >:(:o >:(

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by TiberiuS on Apr 6^th, 2007, 12:49am

LMAO ;D But this bears no relation to the topic originally posted ::)

Jim, you're talking about 2-3 Bar of pressure in the fuel rail, probably more than the mains water pressure in your home. So imagine how bad water can leak from a tiny pinhole in a pipe or leaky tap washer and then inagine that same pressure coming from the O rings and gaskets in your injectors and fuel rail.

So it doesn't mean you've bungled it mate, just that everything has to be just so :)

Hope you get it sorted ;).

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by Spannerdemon on Apr 6^th, 2007, 1:24pm

Yes, all joking aside. This is FUEL (PETROL) that you are dealing with.

All seals and gaskets have to be 100%. The consequences of NOT doing it correctly are the possible loss of your car due to a fire, or even injury not just to yourself, but others.

Your insurers wouldn't touch you if they found it was due to parts being improperly or wrongly fitted.

Not having a go, but where petrol is concerned, you really can't mess about. ALL the parts have to be in top order.

Bruce is 100% on this one ;)

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by dogma on Apr 6^th, 2007, 9:05pm

Totally agree guys, hence ive ordered new seals etc and have not used the car, got new dizzy cap, rota arm and autobox filters, altough they took nearly 4 weeks from ford parts discounted, not overly impressed with them to be honest
jim

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by TiberiuS on Apr 6^th, 2007, 9:36pm

on 04/06/07 at 13:24:19, Spannerdemon wrote:

Bruce is 100% on this one ;)

Ahh well, it's good to know old Tib has some uses ::) ;)

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by dogma on Apr 7^th, 2007, 5:24pm

Hi all, fitted the new injector "o" ring seals and used the oil method you suggested and worked a treat, on taking the old dizzy cap off i found lots of rust on the rota arm and the connections in the dizzy had the fuzzy stuff you usually get when they get damp, thank god i bought a new set, once all back to gether it fired up a dream, only problem i did have was i cant get the fuel pipe off the FPR so decided to leave it for now, many thanks to all for your help
jim :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by Spannerdemon on Apr 7^th, 2007, 10:15pm

Glad you're getting there with it Jim.

Sounds much more promising. ;)

Title: Re: How NOT to change injectors
Post by dogma on Apr 8^th, 2007, 1:02am

[] []Getting there matey, cant moan tho, the car is over 10 years old, but well worth it, many thanks for your help tho
i owe loads of beers now ha ha
jim