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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> Brake Judder
        
(Message started by: catalina on Apr 6^th, 2007, 1:16am)

Title: Brake Judder
Post by catalina on Apr 6^th, 2007, 1:16am

My Cossie has suddenly developed steering judder when braking normally. Not an ABS type problem.

I replaced the front brake discs about 10000 miles back, so was hoping they haven't suddenly become warped (Can that happen? )
There doesn't seem to be any indication that the shock absorbers are a problem since the car drives perfectly on all road surfaces and at all speeds.

Is there anything else I should check on before investing in another pair of discs? The present ones are hardly worn.

My main concern is that the problem developed very quickly and is getting rapidly worse.

John :-/

Title: Re: Brake Judder
Post by jonnycab on Apr 6^th, 2007, 2:15am

Does the juddering seem worse when breaking at higher speeds than it does around town (hardly notice it) ?

If so, then it does point toward the discs being warped :)

Title: Re: Brake Judder
Post by Spannerdemon on Apr 6^th, 2007, 5:11am

Check all the ball joints, wishbones, bushes, wheel balancing and wheel bearings without delay.

If it's rapidly getting worse, I'd be inclined to suspect something either coming loose, or the impending failure of a component in the steering area rather than your fairly new brake discs. Also, check your tyres. Most people don't check tyres regularly, and a few psi (bar) missing (or unseen damage) can have very significant effects on steering and braking.

Hopefully it will be something easy, like just loose, but obviously, for safety, you need to find what it is.

Have you got a friendly local garage with a ramp?
Or a cheeky way is to take it to Quickfit (or similar) for one of their FREE Brake checks!!!

Let them get their hands dirty.......... ;D ;D

Guess what YOU'll be doing over Easter. Good luck with it anyway! ;)

Title: Re: Brake Judder
Post by catalina on Apr 6^th, 2007, 9:53am

Thanks for the last two responses.

Yes, much worse when braking from high speed. I'll try to set up some sort of rig to test for warping. Ford were good enough to give it a quick check over on a ramp and couldn't see anything wrong on a static inspection.
Is ther any reason to suspect that a genuine Ford replacement disc is less prone to warping than one from a respectable alternative supplier?
John

Title: Re: Brake Judder
Post by big_neil on Apr 6^th, 2007, 4:40pm

mine done this when new discs were fitted , no wear in any susp jts . had the discs skimmed on the car cured the prob!

Title: Re: Brake Judder
Post by wudz on Apr 6^th, 2007, 6:05pm

Hi,
I have the same or similar problem even at high or slow braking speeds. I notice the brake pedal just perceptably come up as the high spots on the disc pushes the pads back and feeds back to the pedal at ver low speed..started about a month or so ago and has got worse..
I am going to replace discs and pads next weekend..

The give away in my case is the pedal feedback as mentioned above...

Do you notice any slight back pressure on the brake high spots...only noticable at very very slow speed below 3mls/hr, just creeping freewheel up to a junction slightly downhill ... which rules out suspension etc problems it may help you diagnose the problem..

Cheers
John
:)

Title: Re: Brake Judder
Post by mr._floppy on Apr 6^th, 2007, 6:41pm

My new discs had to be replaced due to warping after only 8K miles, mind you they only cost £19.99 the pair so it's my renowned parsimony to blame really.

Were they genuine Ford replacement discs ?

Title: Re: Brake Judder
Post by cossie_al on Apr 6^th, 2007, 8:41pm

I used a set of ebc green stuff pads on standard discs and it warped them within 2000 miles but I also have goodridge flexi hoses.
I got a set of grooved and drilled vented discs and had no bother since.
Beware of some of the ebay stuff some of these guys buy standard discs and machine them.
Not sure if that helps but it is something to consider :-/

Title: Re: Brake Judder
Post by catalina on Apr 6^th, 2007, 11:06pm

Thanks for all your responses. The discs I fitted were not "original Ford". I got them at a very respectable supplier from whom I have purchased spares, including discs for other Scorpios, for years.

Nonetheless, I intend to check the price of genuine Ford discs before going ahead with my next purchase.

I will report the final outcome but its probably going to take about 10 days before I bite the bullet. \The garden, the wife and the grandchildren don't seem to share my belief that brakes are important. ;D

Cheers, John

Title: Re: Brake Judder
Post by jonnycab on Apr 7^th, 2007, 3:26am

The front discs are the same as the MK1/MK2 Mondeo front discs....but FMD will probably try to tell you that they are different & then say they are twice the price ::)

Maybe it's the weight of the Scorp that warps them so quick ? :-/

Outlets like Formula One, ATS & Kwik Fit will usually supply pattern parts & charge you fives times the cost.......£80 an hour labour ::)

Title: Re: Brake Judder
Post by Spannerdemon on Apr 7^th, 2007, 8:37am

Quote:

the wife and the grandchildren don't seem to share my belief that brakes are important.

No.....Easter eggs are more important....... :o :o

;D ;D

Title: Re: Brake Judder
Post by mr._floppy on Apr 7^th, 2007, 2:33pm

There is the very debateable theory that the habit of keeping one's foot on the brake to stop the car creeping forward rather than disengage the autobox ( or use P ) causes the vented discs to warp through prolonged contact with the hot pads.

Sounds unlikely, but you never know.

Title: Re: Brake Judder
Post by cossie_al on Apr 7^th, 2007, 5:21pm

When I had the standard discs with ebc pads the discs did have tarnish marks the same pattern as the pad.
Apparently some pads hold the heat longer than others, this was what I blamed the warped discs on.
So I reckon you could be right mr._floppy

Title: Re: Brake Judder
Post by catalina on Apr 11^th, 2007, 10:18pm

Got around to fitting two new discs yesterday. Found exactly the same as the last two contributors: Tarnish marks the same pattern as the pads. These had developed into a small amount of pitting with the resulting metal embedded in the pads.

Both the discs and pads had done no more than 5000 miles.

I am going to be a bit more careful in holding the car stationary on the brakes in future!
Thanks for all your contributions on this.

John :)

Title: Re: Brake Judder
Post by wudz on Apr 12^th, 2007, 8:36pm

Good Un, Mr floppy.
will be changing mine this weekend...will try and stop the stationary footbrake habit :)

Cheers
john

Title: Re: Brake Judder
Post by mr._floppy on Apr 12^th, 2007, 9:42pm

Which brings us back to that hoary old question, a favourite on this board, as old as time itself, a question that from time immemorial....... ( oh, do get on with it, [Ed] ) .......... >:(

Is it better for the life of the autobox to keep the transmission in D when stationary in traffic, or is it better to always pop it into neutral ?