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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> Low water causes problems
        
(Message started by: dogma on Apr 22^nd, 2007, 1:05am)

Title: Low water causes problems
Post by dogma on Apr 22^nd, 2007, 1:05am

Hi all, i have a 2.9 12v scorp and have a big question. Is there any thing within the cooling system that if the water level gets very low, the car could runs bad or idle bad ? The problem is this- i recently had a water leak and before i realised the water light came on, and the water tank was empty, at the same time the car ran terrible and idled bad. After filling back up all was ok till it was nealy empty again, after refilling it again run fine and i tried to find the water leak but failed. I know its some where to the left of the engine so must be a pipe, and after it has now emptied around 4 tanks of water i decided to use some rad weld, shortly after the car again started running bad and idles really bad, almost as if its not firing on all cylinders, but it clears if i floor it lol. Theres no oil in the water or like wise. The car starts fine. and every now and then it will run fine but once started again is bad. It happened to much to be a coinsedence, so any idea whats in there, could it be a temp gauge of some sort as when the water was low, the temp gauge didnt move, when it has water and the gauge moves the car runs fine. what evre it is it doesnt like rad weld lol
many thanks ]
jim

Title: Re: Low water causes problems
Post by jonnycab on Apr 22^nd, 2007, 2:55am

If the coolant is too low then the car will run like an old dog because the lack of coolant will make the engine overheat.

The reason the temp guage doesn't work when the coolant is low is because the temp guage sender has be emersed in water for it to take a reading.
If the coolant is so low that the sender isn't emersed in water then the temp guage will stay at cold, but your engine will be hot hot hot ;)

Permanent damage can occur if driven too far without coolant, best case scenario being burnt out spark plugs, worst case scenario being head gasket failure, piston ring/valve damage, or even a cracked engine block/cylinder head :(

Sorry, didn't wish to alarm you ;)

Title: Re: Low water causes problems
Post by dogma on Apr 22^nd, 2007, 1:52pm

Hmmmm, i know what your saying, as soon as the water is replaced it runs fine tho, when i refilled it it ran fine until i put the rad weld in, wondered if the rad weld could afect a sensor, and then afect the running of the car, strange one i know. If i had water in the oil or vise versa id say it was a head gasget but it fine, starts fine and once the car has been run for a bit it runs fine, just the initial first, say 4 miles it runs like a pig, also i should add that i recently replaced the coolant and flushed the system out, the kept cutting out and ran like apig while i bled the system, once it sort of clears if i can call it that its fine
jim

Title: Re: Low water causes problems
Post by Simmo on Apr 22^nd, 2007, 4:37pm

Don't forget there are two temperature sensors. One feeds the temperature gauge and the other supplies info to the CCM. As JC says if the water is not circulating properly,which sounds likely, or has air locks then the sender could be affected. If it suddenly runs OK after 4 miles that's surely about the point at which the thermostat opens. It is on mine. All ponits to poor circulation in my view.

Title: Re: Low water causes problems
Post by dogma on Apr 23^rd, 2007, 1:47am

Ok guys, i took the car for a long run today, the result was as follows- up to speeds of around 40 the cars slightly judders, sometimes a slight back fire, and feels exactly like its either flooding or not firing on all cylinders, it also thumps into gear, if the car is in D and just sat without any throttle its as if im pumping the gas on and off, its weird. speeds of about 50 and up it runs fine. If im doing a low speed and use the kick down it takes off with no problems. very puzzling. My next thing to check will be the cats to see if they are breaking down and blocking the exausts. I know you guys are getting fed with me now lol, just seems funny that as soon as i added the rad weld the car played up again and has done so since, i really appreciate your help
jim :-*

Title: Re: Low water causes problems
Post by petehull on Apr 23^rd, 2007, 9:07am

The way Radweld works is that it creates a sludgy type material inside the waterways, thi idea is to block any small leaks for a temporary repair. It should be flushed out at the first oportunity as it will cause blockages in the fine waterways of your radiator and heater matrix. this will cause overheating.... Very expensive to rectify.

I used to repair Radiators for a living and have on many occasions seen the results of using these products.... take head sir,,,, :-[

hth
Pete

Title: Re: Low water causes problems
Post by dogma on Apr 23^rd, 2007, 10:04pm

Ok, latest new from the field lol, took your advice and flushed out the system and replaced the coolant, started her upand bled, idling still slighly funny but there is a popping coming from the exaust. Took her out for a drive and as i even pulled out of my drive it struggled to actually moved and i could hear several pops or back fires coming from the exaust or more like under the car, in eventuall moved off but again not firing or at least feels like it. A bit better at around 50 mph when it finally got there but bad vibrations or judders for a few minutes. Kich down still works fine and so does giving it a bit of juice. Just an idea but could a broken or breaking cat do this
many thanks
jim

Title: Re: Low water causes problems
Post by Snoopy on Apr 24^th, 2007, 8:15am

Broken Cats can cause serious loss of power and cause poor running ... if everything else has been checked then it is worth getting them checked out. If the monolith has broken into peices and slid back it will block the exhaust, but the only way to find out is to remove it and physically look into it .

Title: Re: Low water causes problems
Post by TiberiuS on Apr 24^th, 2007, 6:09pm

Jim, backfires aren't good news, could do some serious damage if it keeps happening :(

Sounds to me like you're getting unburned fuel into the exhaust system and it's getting ignited there...are you sure you're getting a spark on all 6 pots?

Good luck.

Regards, Bruce :).

Title: Re: Low water causes problems
Post by dogma on Apr 24^th, 2007, 11:30pm

Hi guys, well i had a look at the cat tonight and gave it a few gentle taps with a rubbed mallet but was quiet. Im giving up now so will have to take it to a recormended garage near me. Altho the car is missfiring its by no means loud but this is what ive replaced recently- TPS, plugs, Ht leads, dizzycap, fpr, reconned injectors and cleaned the throttle idle valve 3 times, the problem is getting worse lol. No oil in water or vise versa, revs fine stationary but soon as the car is under pressure it runs like a bag of bolts. To the garage i go, then the breakers lol

Title: Re: Low water causes problems
Post by TiberiuS on Apr 24^th, 2007, 11:49pm

Jim, good luck mate, let us know how you get on ;)

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Low water causes problems
Post by sector-9 on Apr 27^th, 2007, 6:08pm

Has the coolant leak damaged any of the engine wiring loom? Also, as has been said, if the sensors aren't immersed in coolant then they'll be sending artificially low readings to the dashboard and the ECU (which will enrich the fuel mixture to compensate for the "cold" engine).

Darren

Title: Re: Low water causes problems
Post by dogma on Apr 28^th, 2007, 1:31am

Sector 9 i could kiss ya, it maybe the answer i was looking for, might not be but it seemed funny it only played up when the water was very low. Any idea what area of the look it could damage and does anyone know how much the temp senders are for a 2.9 12v as they are probably damaged or nackered as the temp reading is always up and down, i know its not the thermostat as its only a month old
jim :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

Title: Re: Low water causes problems
Post by jonnycab on Apr 28^th, 2007, 2:09am

A new temp sender is about £15.00 from FMD ;)

Title: Re: Low water causes problems
Post by dogma on Apr 28^th, 2007, 6:09pm

Ok matey, i guess both temp senders are the same or am i correct in thinking theres 2 lol ::)

Title: Re: Low water causes problems
Post by jonnycab on Apr 29^th, 2007, 3:25am

Should only be one temp guage sender, the other one is the ECT which is also a temp sensor, but is connected to the engine management to control the fans & fueling :)

The temp guage sender usually has a square/oblong plug fitting & the ECT usually has a round plug fitting :)

When you order one from FMD, then just ask for the 'temp guage sender'...they should know which one you mean ;)

Title: Re: Low water causes problems
Post by petehull on Apr 29^th, 2007, 10:28am

[]

It is the one at the rear of the thermostat housing,

Just replaced mine, got it from Fordparts uk price £19.38 all inclusive.
The numbers on the packet are 4337456 AB
F5AF 12A648 AB
Sender ASSY C16468 K6 (WP)

Presumably some of these numbers are Bin numbers...

Hope this helps, by he way it cured my problem of the fans being on all the time....

Pete ;D

Title: Re: Low water causes problems
Post by petehull on Apr 29^th, 2007, 10:36am

Doh... ???

Sorry, Just realised my last post refers to a 2.3 although I assume the senders are probably the same.
While reading thing on here it can become difficult to remember what the original subject was about, or is it that my brain is in need of a re-tune,, anyone got a scanner for this?
;D

Pete