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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> Another Engine Swap Idea
        
(Message started by: pat on Jul 21^st, 2007, 2:42pm)

Title: Another Engine Swap Idea
Post by pat on Jul 21^st, 2007, 2:42pm

Been reading about Pappa's engine swap with interest.
It is only an idea at the moment but I am contemplating a similar exchange the other way round i.e. putting the 2.9(Cologne?) lump out of our auto saloon into the 2.0 manual Estate.

Option1:- Swap just the engine.

Option2:- Both engine and auto box (preferred option).

I would appreciate any ideas on the complexity of the job, particularly if anyone has done it. The possible problems that spring to mind are:
1) Are the electronics compatible?
2) Are the brakes and suspension(particularly front) the same? Not that swapping those would be a problem.

As I would be using a fully operational donor car, I am guessing that it should be fairly straightforward }{ but perhaps you might beg to differ! @

I would hasten to add that I am not considering this as a DIY project.
If I go ahead and it was financially viable, I would be getting someone else to do the work.
I have the facilities but neither the youth, up to date expertise, or inclination!

Title: Re: Another Engine Swap Idea
Post by TiberiuS on Jul 21^st, 2007, 5:01pm

To be honest Pat, first thing I would do is dump the Ford autobox, that's just my opinion however ::)

AFAIK, 24v lump plus autobox would mainly be a straight swap, the nightmare part would start with the electrics...

Howabout grind the estate back off the 2.0 and weld it to the 24v ::)

Title: Re: Another Engine Swap Idea
Post by pat on Jul 21^st, 2007, 5:54pm

Great idea Bruce. That's the answer! :D

just thought, they're different colours. Oh well - back to the drawing board... ;D

Title: Re: Another Engine Swap Idea
Post by pappa on Jul 21^st, 2007, 7:37pm

Hi Pat!

I don't know anything about the MOT requirements in U.K. but in Finland should you upgrade your car with a bigger engine, you would have to change the brakes & suspension to meet the power.

To my opinion, it is a lot of work, but I don't see that the
electrics is a problem - they seem to be similar (having done the downgrade, but haven't been able to try it yet).

I removed the engine and then compared the full wiring loom
for the DOHC 2.3 to the 24V6 Cossie and found only minor
differencies. So I decided to keep the old wiring and hope for the best. :-/

I have changed the ECU, from Cossie to -98 SPEC now.
Just wondering how the PATS will react :-/

It is interesting. What is making it even more interesting
is that my holiday is ending on monday and I will need
a car in two weeks time... And I'm missing vital 2.3 DOHC
parts!

Title: Re: Another Engine Swap Idea
Post by Highlander on Jul 21^st, 2007, 8:57pm

Is it a 24v or 12v you were thinking of swapping into it?

Title: Re: Another Engine Swap Idea
Post by pat on Jul 22^nd, 2007, 11:40am

Hi Guys.
Pappa:- Yes, the principle would be the same here including insurance requirements. I suspect that the brake discs and pads are the same but the front coils are probably heavier on the 2.9. It should be a simple enough matter, however, to swap the struts complete.

Stuart:- It is a 12v.

Title: Re: Another Engine Swap Idea
Post by Highlander on Jul 22^nd, 2007, 10:42pm

Swapping the struts would be best, the 12v is not quite as bad a job as the 24v :)

You would also need to swap the diff unless you want it to take off a bit quicker, the 2.0 16v has a 4.27 (or is it an 8v)?
The 12v will have a 3.64 diff

Title: Re: Another Engine Swap Idea
Post by pat on Jul 23^rd, 2007, 12:16pm

Thanks for that info, Stuart.

However, I am a tad worried about that first sentence.
What do you mean " not QUITE as bad?!" :o

You sound as though you have some experience of this.
Do you know if the engine out the auto will slot straight onto the 2.0 manual box(it's a 16v). i.e. are bellhousing and spigot the same?
What else would I have to swap?
Any compatibility probs with the electrics?

The diff ratio question wouldn't be a problem as it is quite long-legged even with the 2.0 lump and we don't do any long runs nowadays anyway.

The only problem might be the other way round if somebody wanted to drop the 2.0 engine into the saloon.
Mind you, If we do do the swap, we would probably offer the saloon on here. It is perfectly sound - just needs a bit of TLC - and the 2.0 engine is as sweet as a nut apart from a slight erratic miss which is probably top harness.

Very many thanks for your input. Pat :)

Title: Re: Another Engine Swap Idea
Post by pappa on Jul 23^rd, 2007, 12:25pm

Mmm... I've noticed that the 24V V6 autobox bell is different from the 2.3 16V box.
And if I'm not badly mistaking here, the 12V V6 engine block is the same as in 24V.

Some time have passed since I had a MT75 box in my hands and I assume that the
2.0 has that behind it, so I can't be sure of it's bell, but it is worth having a closer look
before starting the project.

Title: Re: Another Engine Swap Idea
Post by pat on Jul 23^rd, 2007, 6:40pm

Thanks for that Pappa.
Is the bellhousing on these cast into the block or is it bolt-on?

Though from what you are saying it sounds as though they are not interchangeable.

Title: Re: Another Engine Swap Idea
Post by pappa on Jul 23^rd, 2007, 7:07pm

Pat,

Now that you mentioned it - the bellhouse should be bolted on the
gearbox and being so it should be interchangeable!

I'll check on my boxes, but if someone knows how this is, please chip
in.

Title: Re: Another Engine Swap Idea
Post by pat on Jul 23^rd, 2007, 7:12pm

Thanks Pappa.
Sorry - just realised I typed in "block" instead of "box". :P

Title: Re: Another Engine Swap Idea
Post by pappa on Jul 30^th, 2007, 7:53am

Hi Pat!

Just had a look at the http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/autotrans/A4LDEDescript.pdf
manual and it shows that the bellhouse can be removed. I haven't done that, so I can't
give you more detailed information how it would work for you though. :-/

My project is now in it's final stages. The new engine is in place and only exhaust and
vacuum piping, some waterhoses and that sort of things remain. Yesterday I welded
a new exhaust pipe part one. The first part after exhaust manifold. It would have costed
670 euro's at Ford so I decided not to go that way.

Took quite a long time to do do it. I modified a less than a year used catalysator to
fit into it etc and had to have a new exhaust pipe flange made from a drawing,
But I'm happy with the result. It's not pretty, but it fits and will do the job.

http://www.issikka.net/make/images/engswp/exhaust-no-1.jpg

Title: Re: Another Engine Swap Idea
Post by pat on Jul 30^th, 2007, 6:00pm

Hi Pappa.
Good for you - that's saved you a bit of money. :)

Glad to hear the job's progressing well.

I am having second thoughts and may just try to get the 16v sorted out. I have had a look at the top harness and it looks fine which bears out what the mechanic said.
I am wondering whether the corroded fuel filter has resulted in rust/dirt in the injectors.
We shall see.
Thanks for your help.