Ford Scorpio Forum - Print Page


    
      
        Ford Scorpio Forum
        (https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)
      

        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> Imobiliser query
        
(Message started by: mijfife on Feb 29^th, 2008, 4:09pm)

Title: Imobiliser query
Post by mijfife on Feb 29^th, 2008, 4:09pm

Hi all, when I bought my TD Ultima, I was supposed to get the master key and two black ones with it but the seller could only find the black key he was using (In the middle of a house move apparently) If I don't get the other keys, I wondered what my options were?
The spares car, a 2.3 Ultima does have it's master key so my question is this. Is the immobilising circuit part of the main ECU or is this a separate unit that I could take from the 2.3, complete with all the locks obviously and fit into the TD? Failing that, does anyone know how much a new master key from ford would be? I get very nervous at only having one key for the car ???

Cheers Jim

Title: Re: Imobiliser query
Post by tintin on Feb 29^th, 2008, 4:42pm

Hi,

Im not sure the early ones had a master "red" key. When i got my 95 cossie, the guy said it never had one. When I replaced both the ECU and the CCM under the glovebox early last year, the old key worked just fine, didnt even need reprogramming. Suspect the PATS is somewhere behind the steering wheel cowl, but not sure if anyone has actually found it ???

Hope this helps,

Title: Re: Imobiliser query
Post by gozz on Feb 29^th, 2008, 11:25pm

I think the little transceiver fitted round ignition barrel and held on by one screw,reads the key and transmits the code to the PATS module,it would'nt be a terrible job to change your barrel and transceiver (4 pin plug) and see the result,you would'nt need to change the locks necessarily.Why not give it a go,it,s not too technical !
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Imobiliser query
Post by vanman on Mar 2^nd, 2008, 12:13pm

I think the key reader around the barrel only reads the key,and the PATS unit enables the system if the right key is used ,so you would have to change the PATS unit.bit of a secret to where it is located?

Title: Re: Imobiliser query
Post by mijfife on Mar 2^nd, 2008, 12:23pm

Thanks for the advice so far guys, at least it sounds like the PATS unit is separate. I had a look at the manual on here but understandably, the security part isn't on for public viewing. I couldn't get the email bit to work to request it though.

Could someone (one of the moderators perhaps?) VIA PM ONLY!! either pass this part of the manual on to me or let me know where the PATS is located?

Kind regards, Jim

Title: Re: Imobiliser query
Post by Snoopy on Mar 2^nd, 2008, 3:02pm

There is no way of geting the info you requested we did not even get it from FMD when tyhey gave us the TIS info so sorry on that one.. The Pats unit on the early models is seperate and is housed on the inside of the bulkhead left of centre behind the glove box area ... I would have thought you could swop over but it is possible to get a NEW master key programmed by FMD or other AUTO Locksmiths at a cost of around £60 AFAIK... See HERE (http://www.autolocksmith.co.uk/) for locksmiths ....

HTH

Title: Re: Imobiliser query
Post by tintin on Mar 2^nd, 2008, 3:32pm

im having problems with mine at the moment. swapping the ecu and ccm (units behind the glovebox) did NOT require any reprogramming of key or fob.

BUT there is a problem with the car not "unimmobilising". the key fob locks and unlocks the car (as does the key), so this is specifically the immobiliser, not the alarm. i presume its not connected to the ecu/ccm. our (Highlanders) next steps i think is to replace the transponder by the ignition barrel, and hold the relevant key near it to see if it unimmobilises (no need to change all the locks, just have it on the keyring).

i presume there is a battery in the key itself to generate a signal, im wondering if its that that is failing (it sometimes starts fine, sometimes its immobilised). if so, no idea how to change it (or is it a new key?).

the only other part is the transponder.....or the wiring from it to the ccm/ecu.

will keep you posted

Title: Re: Imobiliser query
Post by Stixy on Mar 2^nd, 2008, 6:12pm

My last Scorpio came with only one key and Ford wanted £70 to supply and program a new master and slave so the the system had 3 keys .

But i didnt want to pay that much so i got 2 plain non transponder keys cut £4 ea then carefully cut the chip out of my working pats key and securly Taped the chip to the antena part of the tranciever and put it all back together and it all worked fine

Effectively my old car does not have a working immobiliser now so i used a disclock type security device and passed it on to the cars current owner

Not perfect i know but spending £8 is better than £70

Title: Re: Imobiliser query
Post by harry.m1byt on Mar 2^nd, 2008, 9:38pm

In responce to Tintin...

What you are describing as a 'transponder' is to the best of my knowledge just a simple loop/coil of wire around the ignition barrel area. The correct use for the term 'transponder' would be to call the electronics in the key the transponder - it TRANSmits a signal in resPONce to a request for a code from the PATS unit.

There is no battery needed for that transponder, the coil of wire generates a pulse of current, which is picked up by the transponder in the key and sed to power its electronics - the transponder in the key then responds with a code - which is then picked up by the coil of wire and fed back to the PATS module.

You could put the transponder part of the in the area of the ignition barrel and providing you had another key which physically fitted and there were no other transponders nearby, the car should start. One trick to try is to cover the plastic part of your normally working ignition key, completely over with aluminium cooking foil. That should prevent the key from starting the car, until the foil is removed.

My 95 has one red original Ford master and two black keys.

Title: Re: Imobiliser query
Post by gozz on Mar 2^nd, 2008, 10:00pm

harry.m1byt.
The loop as you refer to it carries the following words:-FORD PATS XCVR MADE IN PORTUGAL
PATS TRANSCEIVER 95GG-15607-AD
UDM55628
It does indeed contain a multi winding copper coil in addition to a PCB with about a dozen components on it
GOZZ
P.S. Did you receive a pm from me re EEC IV ?

Title: Re: Imobiliser query
Post by harry.m1byt on Mar 3^rd, 2008, 7:41pm

I have just spotted your email and have now replied to it.

The electronics around the lock will be to generate the pulse of energy to trigger the key into responding with its code and an amplifier to boost the signal returned. A transceiver (transmitter + receiver) would be a correct name to use for that part.

Title: Re: Imobiliser query
Post by mijfife on Mar 17^th, 2008, 2:46pm

Just a quick follow up on this one, I tried changing the electronic unit around the lock and holding the matching key beside it while I turned the ignition and.....nothing :( it looks like the main immobiliser unit beneath the glove box will need changed as well, a job for another day then!

Cheers Jim