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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> Another diff. noise thread
        
(Message started by: Mike_Floutier on May 24^th, 2008, 5:48pm)

Title: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on May 24^th, 2008, 5:48pm

Hi,

I'm still trying to track down my noise (see "donut" thread) and my thoughts have returned to the diff.

After a run today I got underneath it to have a look and I've got two questions:

1. How hot should it get normally - mine is too hot to touch for any length of time, is this normal? and

2. How little is too little Hypoid oil - my level is about half an inch below the plug hole?

Thanks

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by gozz on May 24^th, 2008, 10:05pm

Mike.
That level should be sufficient,but the casing should never be that hot.Sounds like excessive friction.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on May 24^th, 2008, 10:35pm

Thanks Gozz,

I'll try syphoning it out and replacing it but I guess it's pretty worn after 300,000+ miles and I've never changed the oil.

My goal at this stage is to confirm whether or not it's causing my "noise". If it is then it would probably be worth replacing the diff.

If it's the autobox, I think I'll just get another car but it would be a pity as I like this one and it's fine apart from this noise.

THanks again.

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by jonnycab on May 25^th, 2008, 1:34am

A bad diff will usually make a low pitched droning noise that gets worse the faster you go.

As regards to checking the diff oil level....it should be up to the level of the bottom of the plug, on level ground :).......stick a finger in the hole & see if you have oil on the bottom of your finger........ If you do then the oil level is fine ;)

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by gozz on May 25^th, 2008, 12:44pm

Mike.
No point in changing the oil,if the diff IS noisy it's too late.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on May 25^th, 2008, 1:19pm

What I'm trying to do is get some indication if it IS the diff.

To be honest I can't tell where the noise/vibration is coming from. When the garage told me the donut was split I thought the noise was from the front. Then when I start to think about the diff. I can hear it coming from the back - lol!

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by mr._floppy on May 26^th, 2008, 1:00am

I wouldn't be too worried about the heat of the diff casing ( try touching the engine sump after a run ), the hypoid oil is meant to get quite hot.

Anyway, the diff has other, better ways of communicating its imminent disintigration, like high-pitched screeching, then rumbling, then metallic crunching :-/

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by gozz on May 26^th, 2008, 9:41am

The engine sump has a fierce fire just above it !
GOZZ

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Highlander on May 26^th, 2008, 9:06pm

Mike I have a 2.3 diff you can have in the next week or so. worth a shot, they arent too bad to change

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on May 26^th, 2008, 11:22pm

Highlander,

You are a star, I was just driving home from London in the rain thinking to myself; "I wonder if Highlander has a diff?" (I kid you not!).

I drained my diff. this morning and refilled it with new Hypoid oil just to see if I could tell any difference and my impression is that it's a little noisier and the noisiest bits have moved to slightly different speeds so I'm pretty convinced that it's the diff.

I just want to take the car to an autobox specialist in the morning to rule out the box so if he thinks it's the diff. then I'll be exceedingly happy to take up your kind offer.

Thanks a lot!

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Highlander on May 27^th, 2008, 9:55am

Still using the car at the moment but the mot runs out in a couple of weeks and it'll be heading to China in some form or another not long after that once the goodies have been removed ;)

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on May 27^th, 2008, 12:28pm

Ah-so!

The autobox man had a really good test drive with my 2.3 today and he is quite happy with the box. Also he didn't think the diff. was a problem.

He thought the noises/vibration were probably being caused by the propshaft and suggested that autobox suspension mount wear could be the culprit (although he felt propshaft problems of this sort could be hard to track down).

Highlander, would you be able to let me have the said autobox suspension mounting when your car is available?

Thanks

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Highlander on May 27^th, 2008, 1:20pm

Its a manual although i may have one somewhere else ;)

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on May 27^th, 2008, 5:59pm

Thanks Highlander, that would be great!

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on May 28^th, 2008, 6:55pm

Highlander,

I think I'm definitely interested in the diff. from your 2.3.

I lifted the rear seat today to listen to the diff. more clearly. What amazed me was that the bottom of the seat was almost too hot to hold; I couldn't believe it until I realised that it sits on top of the diff.

Thanks again!

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by a900one on Jun 8^th, 2008, 7:23pm

Put some molyslip gearbox additive in it.

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on Jun 8^th, 2008, 7:53pm

Thanks a900one,

I tried that when I changed the hypoid oil and it actually got worse.

But that's good 'cos at least I knew for certain that it was the diff. that was making the noise/vibration.

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Highlander on Jul 17^th, 2008, 10:10am

The diff has landed ;D

Hope that solves the problem!

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on Jul 17^th, 2008, 12:00pm

Thank you Highlander,

It has landed indeed, I'm just glad it didn't land on my foot cos it's certainly heavy - even the delivery man was struggling - lol.

Will post when it's fitted to let you know the result.

Thanks again!

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Highlander on Jul 17^th, 2008, 12:03pm

The backplates are interchangeable Mike, just in case you have the older single centre mount type and not the double side mounts like that one.

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on Jul 17^th, 2008, 1:01pm

Thanks, mine's the two bolt one thankfully.

Btw, would I be right in thinking that the cross-member to diff. bracket bolt must be undone and that what appears to be it's nut is actually welded onto the cross-member - cos it doesn't want to budge?

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Highlander on Jul 17^th, 2008, 1:21pm

The centre one?? 15mm?

Hmm i'm not sure if it HAS to come off, i always take it off because its easier.. but I expect it does..

I've only had to grind one off once ;)

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on Jul 18^th, 2008, 7:22am

Ok thanks that one came off ok BUT I'm stuck with the right hand bolt on the rear mounting.

I've got it undone ok but I can't withdraw it as it fouls on the petrol tank and I cant see a way round it. I've lowered the crossmember as far as it will go but it wont go down far enough for the bolt to clear the tank.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Mike

PS As you were, you're going to like this - lol

I had tied up the drive shafts with string, little realising that in that position the cv joints would prevent the cross-member from lowering.

It amazed me, it was such thin string yet it was taking the weight of the cross-member, diff, wheels etc. plus me hanging from the diff. derrrr!

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Highlander on Jul 18^th, 2008, 9:42am

Is this getting done as we speak?? ;D this morning? I hope you have better weather where you are, its pouring here!!

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on Jul 18^th, 2008, 2:41pm

Weather is okish here, just a few spots of rain.

I just got through fitting the diff. I hadn't done one before so it took me a while, specially having a stinking cold and not having slept last night - might have been the curry, hehe.

Anyway I just went for a test drive and guess what, I think I must have been barking up the wrong tree cos the noise is the same as ever - please tell me I don't have to take it off and send it back!!

It was good practice though, thanks so much for sending it Stuart.

Well it's back to the drawing board. I had a half hour test drive with an autobox specialist and he said he thought it was something to do with the propshaft so I've ordered a centre bearing and we'll see if that makes any difference.

Thanks again.

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Highlander on Jul 18^th, 2008, 3:24pm

Oh Well at least you've ruled it out ;)

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on Jul 19^th, 2008, 8:28pm

Stuart, I almost too embarrassed to ask you this but you don't still have the propshaft for your 2.3 by any chance?

Having eliminated everything else, according to the Sherlock Holmes principal, I have to assume that it is the propshaft - and that was the autobox specialist's diagnosis I have to admit.

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Highlander on Jul 20^th, 2008, 10:34am

I do but its a manual, and yours is an auto I think??
I'm pretty sure they arent interchangeable

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on Jul 20^th, 2008, 7:41pm

Good point, I forgot about that, thanks!

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on Jul 20^th, 2008, 9:16pm

I see there's a 2.9 auto prop-shaft for sale on e-bay. Does anyone know if this would fit my 2.3 auto?

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Highlander on Jul 22^nd, 2008, 2:29am

I would expect so if its a 24v, dont know what the 12v is like

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on Jul 22^nd, 2008, 7:12am

Thanks Highlander,

I've found one from Partsgateway from a 2.3 auto now and it should arrive today or tomorrow so I'll post how it goes. It's a bit frustrating having just fitted a brand new donut rubber connector to my old propshaft - maybe I'll move it over to this newer one (which had only done 70k as opposed to my 311k) - we'll see.

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Highlander on Jul 22^nd, 2008, 10:24am

can you feel any movement in the UJ's?

I have a 2.3 autobox if the prop doesnt sort it ;)

We'll get you back on the road somehow :)

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on Jul 22^nd, 2008, 10:48am

To be honest I don't really know what is ok and what is bad - I just thought I'd swap it for another one and see if it made a difference but I'm certainly looking forward to having a good look at the old one when I get it off.

Yesterday was fun because one of my ignition coil packs decided to give up - they only seem to last about 125,000 miles with my car; I think it must be the lpg requiring higher voltage or current or whatever it is.

Anyway I had to limp back from the airport in 2nd on 2 cylinders. It would have normally run in a higher gear on 2 but when this shaking thing gets to it's worst resonant frequency (around 40/45mph) 2 cylinders aren't enough to get it out of that range - deep joy!! Anyway, my customer was very understanding which was a relief.

Will let you know how it goes with the prop.

Highlander, I really appreciate your offer of the box, I am hopeful that the prop will cure it but, I have to say, I was wondering what to do if it doesn't since reconditioning my box is not financially viable.

Do you think I'd be able to change it myself, do you need any special tools? I'll start boning up on it from the site but any tips would be welcome - I never in my wildest dreams imagined being able to change it - hehe.

Thanks!

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Highlander on Jul 22^nd, 2008, 2:20pm

If you can change a diff you'll can change a box

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on Jul 24^th, 2008, 1:00pm

Ok, well the good news is that the prop-shaft arrived this morning and it went in very easily.

The not so good news is that it did not make one iota of difference.

So it is definitely the auto-box, or is it? Let me say what I mean, my auto-box specialist took it out with me for 20 minutes and could have offered to re-condition it for me BUT his view was the box was ok and so he didn't.

I am wondering about an electrical problem - again, let me tell you what I mean:-

I have a coolant leak that I can't seem to fix around the thermostat pipework. It loses about half a litre every week or two (usually after a run - I think) - I can see where is sprays.

There seem to be quite a lot of electrical plugs in this area. I've already had to disconnect the EGR's vacuum pipe because this leak has caused the EVC unit (which is under the leak) to malfuntion (permanent vacuum).

Also, I've had a NEW idling problem recently that appears when I start the car in the morning but clears up when the coating of coolant in this "electrical" area evaporates.

What I'm wondering is what all the other electrical connections are and maybe, if one of them has some influence, directly or indirectly over the operation of the auto-box.

Does this make sense, do you have any ideas? It would be horrendous to replace the box only for an electrical problem to remain!!

Thanks

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Highlander on Jul 24^th, 2008, 1:03pm

on the left side of the engine Mike??
There are two big square multiplugs down there which basically have everything running through them, the engine and gearbox wiring all runs through these...

Is that where the leak is?

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on Jul 24^th, 2008, 1:35pm

To the left as you stand in front of the car looking at it, the alternator side

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on Jul 24^th, 2008, 1:41pm

I was looking at the instructions for changing the autobox and it says "Disconnect the central multiplug for the automatic transmission cable loom." I was wondering where that was an if it had been getting a shower of coolant for the last year or so - lol?

Mike

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on Jul 24^th, 2008, 2:04pm

Ok, I just printed out the picture of the said; "central multiplug for the automatic transmission cable loom."

It's not under the leak I had in mind BUT under another leak (I forgot I had 2 leaks).

The first leak is from the lpg vaporiser which drips onto the EVC unit which I can now see is right next door to the autobox multiplug SO yes it's also dripping onto the plug.

The second leak is from the unit that houses the coolant thermostat (can't fix it so far) and this drips/sprays onto all the plugs underneath it; the throttle position sensor plug seems to get the most but all the others get a coating as well.

What would you suggest doing?

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Tompion on Jul 24^th, 2008, 3:38pm

Can you get something under the stat housing to collect the coolant?
If it’s leaking that much, you need to get it sorted, if it’s a crack in the housing that lets go suddenly you’ll likely end up with a cracked cylinder head (judging by other posts).
My car's had a slight leak in the stat housing for the past couple of years, but it has just started to get worse.

5stud was kind enough to send me a damaged manifold/stat to experiment with, having seen what caused the main problem with his I can see I need to get on & do something about it just in case it's the same problem.
The problem being that water has got between the steel insert for the lower fixing next to the stat & the plastic of the manifold, the steel insert has swollen with rust & cracked the manifold.

http://i.imgur.com/fSxBQ8N.jpg

Title: Re: Another diff. noise thread
Post by Mike_Floutier on Jul 24^th, 2008, 4:36pm

Thanks, that's a good point but my immediate and pressing problem is to get this vibration/noise sorted before it stops me using the car for my job as a private hire driver.

One thing about the transmission which I just realised that I've not mentioned before is probably well worth sharing:-

If I drive with o/d on, the box will work "normally" (plus "vibration") until warmed up (ie, around 1/2 hour).

After that it will slip out of overdrive under anything above the load needed to cruise down a slight hill. It will happily go into o/d with a lighter throttle but comes out again when you put your put down (like a very over-sensitive kick-down). During the changeover period there is a constant vibration rather like a gentle "cattle-grid" effect.

I've taken to driving it in o/d off all the time; it's surprising how little effect this has on mpg. Probably cos I don't do too much on the motorway.

Anyway, the problem "vibration" that I'm trying to fix is a lot like this weak cattle grid noise but it occurs all the time between 40 - 50mph and dies away progressively above that. It's accompanied by a loss of power (within the box - not in the engine), so I have to push through this speed band quite deliberately - quite a problem if the ambient traffic speed is 45mph!

The only other feature of this problem is a "metal-on-metal" bearing type noise that is heard mainly at 15 - 30mph.

Just to re-iterate, I've already ruled out all the wheels/tyres, suspension, drive shafts, cv joints, differential, prop-shaft and engine.

Mike