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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> power steering
        
(Message started by: gost on May 31^st, 2009, 3:20pm)

Title: power steering
Post by gost on May 31^st, 2009, 3:20pm

Hi gents, just got back from kent meet, 5 miles from home power steering went on me, very hard to steer, also battery light was coming and going, found that by turning off ac blower off steering returned a lot better, thought i could smell burning but when i arrived home had a look, both belts intact, any ideas please

Title: Re: power steering
Post by scorpio_man on May 31^st, 2009, 3:29pm

hi there

what do you mean, both belt are ok?
the 2.3 only has the one that covers a/c, water pump, power steering and alternator.

it does sound like the a/c compressor is starting to seize. any noise?

with the engine off, turn the a/c compressor by hand, first with out pushing the clutch plate in. then do it again with the clutch engaged.

is there any signs of wear?

hth

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gost on May 31^st, 2009, 3:38pm

thanks ill have a look see there was no noise but a burning type smell and battery light came on

Title: Re: power steering
Post by Scorpio_Mike on May 31^st, 2009, 3:50pm

on 05/31/09 at 15:38:17, gost wrote:

thanks ill have a look see there was no noise but a burning type smell and battery light came on

Alternator seizing up ???

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gost on May 31^st, 2009, 4:01pm

wow lol
wish i hadnt started ;D

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gost on May 31^st, 2009, 4:26pm

just been out o have a look
started car steering fine, looked at belt spinning ok, turned on ac to LO, had a look and belt had stopped completely?? obviously something has seized, do i loosen belt and try to turn ac pulley

Title: Re: power steering
Post by Tompion on May 31^st, 2009, 5:58pm

If it’s not screeching with the belt slipping it may be you need a new belt or the tensioner has seized.

With the engine off try turning the centre of the aircon pulley (the bit with 3 lumps on) – it should turn by hand but stiffen up quickly as the pressure builds in the aircon.

Pull up on the top run of the pulley a few times (this will sometimes free off a stuck tensioner), you should see the tensioner pivot downwards. There are some marks on it that show if it’s reached it’s limit (belt stretched to max). Try spraying some grease into the pivot of the tensioner.

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gost on May 31^st, 2009, 6:21pm

the belt was actually not moving at all not screeching either

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gost on May 31^st, 2009, 7:35pm

So am i right in thinking that the power steering pulley is ok until i try to engage it, then it locks up? so does that mean a new compressor or can i take it of and free it

Title: Re: power steering
Post by scorpio_man on May 31^st, 2009, 8:24pm

on 05/31/09 at 18:21:01, gost wrote:

the belt was actually not moving at all not screeching either

hi there

if you're 100% sure that the belt isn't turning, then don't run the car as your water pump isn't running!

you need to get the belt off and check all the pulleys. also as posted earlier, check the tensioner is working correctly.

hth

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gost on May 31^st, 2009, 8:28pm

belt turns ok until i turn ac to LO presumably that is when air con cuts in, thats when belt locks up, can i use car as long as no air con engaged?

Title: Re: power steering
Post by Tompion on May 31^st, 2009, 8:55pm

There’s a clutch within the pulley that engages the compressor when the aircon is on so probably OK but better to unplug the compressor from underneath, or perhaps remove the aircon relay (just a guess – I assume it would have the desired effect).
My point earlier was that if the belt stops and doesn’t screech on the engine pulley it isn’t tight enough - it may not be the compressor that’s at fault.

Title: Re: power steering
Post by scorpio_man on May 31^st, 2009, 9:22pm

on 05/31/09 at 20:55:52, Tompion wrote:

hi there

you can unplug the a/c done at the n/s headlight. it's near the air intake.

as dave has said, you need to check the tensioner.

hth

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gozz on May 31^st, 2009, 9:57pm

Bruce.
As the lads are saying it sounds like the tensioner,if you take on a car that has not been used for a long time it can get very stiff or even solid,by using the aircon or power steering, the tensioner can move enough to let the belt loose.If you do as Tompion said,ie pull on the top of the belt,you may find it stays in that position.
They usually free off on the bench with a good drink of WD40.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: power steering
Post by Jonnycab on May 31^st, 2009, 11:44pm

It sounds like the air-con compressor has seized if it only happens when you switch the air-con on :(

Title: Re: power steering
Post by Simmo on Jun 1^st, 2009, 6:54am

What Bruce hasn't said is that he has been getting the 57 (07) code on his climate control for a while and swapping the HBC over did not affect it. He also has found that the pipes from the condenser were not as cold as on his wifes' Scorp. I guess this might have a bearing on the 'failure' on the way home from the Kent meet. Any views gents?. Does this help your diagnosis?. Mike.

Title: Re: power steering
Post by Snoopy on Jun 1^st, 2009, 7:27am

I reckon the A/C Compressor has seized and it will require a new one, and from the sounds of it a new belt as well if that one has been slipping and getting hot .
Need to get the system drained of coolant , new( replacement ) compressor ) fitted and regassed and tested for leaks .

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gost on Jun 1^st, 2009, 9:18am

Morning gents, tried pulling on top of belt, nothing at all, is the tensioner the bit just under the themostat, i tried pulling on it doesnt move at all, just sprayd wd40, will see what happens

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gost on Jun 1^st, 2009, 9:32am

just had a quote from a breaker, 46 inc post packing

Title: Re: power steering
Post by Tompion on Jun 1^st, 2009, 10:07am

Have look at the picture in this thread, you'll see a slot in the tensioner just above the wooden wedge. Squirt some oil in there and around the bush where it bolts on (I prefer spray grease/chain grease) and keep pulling up on the belt, you should be able to get it moving.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1242480868

Pull up on the top run you can see in the picture, the pulley imediately below should go down at the same time - you have to pull quite hard.

Title: Re: power steering
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 1^st, 2009, 10:22am

hi there

as above and work the tensioner.

page 5 here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/engines/dohc2_3/2300Remove&Inst.pdf)

hth

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gost on Jun 1^st, 2009, 5:39pm

Ok gents checked tensioner after work, it seems ok when i pull hard on belt i can see it move, iv ordered air con pump for £46, best quote for fitting and regas 115, sounds reasonable to me

Title: Re: power steering
Post by Jonnycab on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 11:14am

Bruce, with the engine off ;).....can you turn the the clutch wheel on the air compressor by hand ?

It should turn quite easily. If it's very stiff or doesn't turn at all, then it's most likely had it :)

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gost on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 1:46pm

Hi Jonneycab, if u mean the bit in the middle with 3 things on it, yes it turns easily, now im confused, does that mean its probably ok?? iv just bought one from breaker ???

Title: Re: power steering
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 1:49pm

on 06/02/09 at 13:46:31, gost wrote:

Hi Jonneycab, if u mean the bit in the middle with 3 things on it, yes it turns easily, now im confused, does that mean its probably ok?? iv just bought one from breaker ???

hi there

you need to push that bit in and then (while holding it in) turn it.

that's you manually engaging the compressor.

hth

Title: Re: power steering
Post by Jonnycab on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 2:17pm

Is there something I'm getting wrong here ? :-/
I don't think you can manually engage the clutch wheel to pulley wheel, well I can't ;)

Just turning it should determine whether it's seized or not. There should be a little resistance that builds up slightly as the pressure builds up with the internal piston stroke, but should then drop off again. When it's engaged, all it does is pull the clutch wheel onto the pulley wheel so the pump can work :)

Bruce, have you removed the belt & checked all the other pulleys like the P/S pump & alternator. I once had an alternator seize up & cause similar symptoms :)

Title: Re: power steering
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 3:11pm

hi jc

you are correct is saying turning the clutch will do the job.

i always just push in the plate and turn.

if you can't push the plate in, you need to eat lots of porridge in the morning! ;D

Title: Re: power steering
Post by Chris_Basel on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 5:17pm

Gost, my air conditioning clutch pulley assembly fell to pieces so I just fitted a shorter belt to bypass the aircon pulley. (Non air con models belt measured up about right)

I hope you don't mind me asking, but if you do end up needing to get your new compressor fitted, would you sell me the old clutch and pulley as I think my compressor is still ok. It was the 3 rubber bits on the front that fell to pieces on mine.

Chris

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gozz on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 7:27pm

Chris.
You can buy the clutch separately from FMD,but they are a bit steep,I reckon the last one I bought made a mess of £100.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: power steering
Post by Chris_Basel on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 10:45pm

Unfortunately that's about all the car is worth at the moment, so I was hoping to try a cheap alternative first.

Thanks though anyway for the info.
Chris

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gost on Jun 6^th, 2009, 1:58pm

New (second hand) pump fitted and everything fine now, any point in keeping old one for someone to recondition,

Title: Re: power steering
Post by Simmo on Jun 7^th, 2009, 11:14am

on 06/02/09 at 17:17:31, Chris_Basel wrote:

What about Chris ?.

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gozz on Jun 7^th, 2009, 12:14pm

on 06/06/09 at 13:58:14, gost wrote:

New (second hand) pump fitted and everything fine now, any point in keeping old one for someone to recondition,

gost.
Power steering pump or aircon compressor ?
GOZZ.

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gost on Jun 7^th, 2009, 4:00pm

air con compressor gozz, everything seems ok now

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gozz on Jun 7^th, 2009, 5:08pm

gost.
Did you see Simmo's post re Chris ?
GOZZ.

Title: Re: power steering
Post by Chris_Basel on Jun 7^th, 2009, 10:33pm

The air conditioning clutch/pulley would be useful.

Let me know if you would be willing to post it.
Thanks,
Chris

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gost on Jun 8^th, 2009, 5:39pm

i have the whole thing chris, its yours if u want it, where are u

Title: Re: power steering
Post by Chris_Basel on Jun 9^th, 2009, 8:58am

I've sent you a PM about it. Thanks for getting back to me.

Chris

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gost on Jun 11^th, 2009, 5:44pm

Hi gents seems like i was getting carried away, put air con on this evening and same thing happened, no power steering, had cc on lo wich kicks in air con, after 20 mins lost power steering again, parked up had a look, squeeling noise, just slight, pressed ac button , light goes out and squeeling stops, steering feels lighter, press button again , belt definately slows down and squeel comes back, any ideas

Title: Re: power steering
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 11^th, 2009, 7:31pm

hi there

i still think it's the tensioner.

i think it's a 15 or 17mm nut on it. work it with an extension bar. make sure it's moving.

also when was the belt changed? after the last time?

hth

Title: Re: power steering
Post by gost on Jun 12^th, 2009, 6:22pm

Scorpio man u may well be correct, here is full description of what happens, always drive with ac button on and temp set to 22, no probs at all, when i put temp to loand run for 20 mins, thats when power steering goes, turn of ac button and all back to normal, reset temp to 22 turn on ac button everything ok, belt not been changed and milage 73000, when i pull on belt tensioner definately moves but maybe not enough tension , dont know, comments please

Title: Re: power steering
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 12^th, 2009, 6:38pm

hi there

i'd stick a new belt on it and see if that fixes it.

i'm not sure when the belt should be changed. does you old one have cracks across the inside.

hth