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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
        
(Message started by: Tekno on Aug 2nd, 2009, 1:49pm)
Title: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tekno on Aug 2nd, 2009, 1:49pm
Anyone done that conversion? Stock RS2000 camshafts -> 2.3 16V Scorpio

Easy upgrade and worth the price?  ::) Any power gain? Some people say that 25hp gain can be expected with only that

http://www.crustworld.co.uk/2_3hybrid.php

"Escort RS2000 owners are regularly seeing close to 200bhp from naturally-aspirated 2.3 engines with the use of the RS camshafts, engine management system and an uprated fuel pressure regulator."

8)
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by pinto on Aug 3rd, 2009, 9:59pm
Power gain, yes - the 2300 cam profiles are very mild (spelt N-A-F-F) so you'll get a noticable boost from the RS items - dont pay too much though as they arent special items lol - they're the same cams as fitted to the 2.0 16v scorp models ;).

2300 also suffers badly from a lower compression ratio than the 2.0 16v - hence produced a relatively feeble 140bhp.  With the 2.0 compresion ratio and cams, output would be much closer to 170+ bhp :) - not what ford wanted when they were trying to push cossies out the door for 10 grand more  ::)
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tekno on Aug 3rd, 2009, 11:49pm
Okay. I paid £70 delivered for cams. They are 60K (miles propably?) driven.
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Chris_Basel on Aug 4th, 2009, 9:42am
I've looked at various options for the 16v engines and from what I've read it looks like one way to increase power is to use:

2.0 head, cams, sump, flywheel, inlet manifold
2.3 block, crank and pistons


I'm not sure what the compression ratio would be with the 2.0 head on the 2.3 block, but it would be higher than 10:1

I don't know if you would need the RS2000 higher flowing injectors or whether the 2.0 ECU would handle the changes, unmodified

Chris
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by pinto on Aug 4th, 2009, 8:19pm
Think its the pistons that are at fault on the 2300 - not flat tops.

All the above will give a healthy increase in power tho :)

I bought a set of RS2K cams from ebay for a tenner  ;D
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Highlander on Aug 4th, 2009, 8:24pm
2.0 16v Scorpio cams?? same as the RS2000?

I've got two sets of those, anyone need any?
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tekno on Aug 4th, 2009, 8:52pm
What means 'tenner'?  ???
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Simmo on Aug 4th, 2009, 9:13pm
£10 sterling. ;)
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tekno on Oct 30th, 2009, 11:05pm
What is correct Finis for timing chain tensioner?

Found two
1662846
1662847

I think first one is for 2.0 16V ? Is it same or different?

???  ::)  
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by tlundkvi on Oct 31st, 2009, 8:17am
In the link to yatego I once posted it says in German the 1662847 is for 2.0 DOHC 100 kW / 136 PS and 2.3 Ltr. DOHC 107 kW / 145 PS.

Wasn't there an 8 valve 2.0? guess the first one goes to that.
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by pinto on Oct 31st, 2009, 8:45am
2.0 8v made 125ps - think you have the parts for the 16v Mondeo Zetec engine - thats 136ps
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tekno on Oct 31st, 2009, 10:54am
ehh propably scorpio 2.0 16v is what tlunkdvi meant
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tekno on Nov 24th, 2009, 9:56am
And tappets... Does 2.0 16V / RS2000 (From burton) fit to 2.3 16v?
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by pinto on Nov 26th, 2009, 10:16pm
Should do - the head castings for the 2.0 and 2.3 are the same.
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tekno on Jul 15th, 2010, 4:36pm
hi.

i forget to measure torx which is in camshaft gear.

which size is it?

pic:
http://img59.imageshack.us/i/dsc05458uu.jpg/
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Matt on Jul 15th, 2010, 7:23pm
i believe its a T40 but could be a T35

i did the 2.0 top end on a 2.3 conversion a while ago, made the car much more fun, also fitted the 2.0's intake system and throttle body (overall has a larger bore then the2.3's)

running the rs2000 ecu will give a bit more performance as the 2.3's was designed for comfort and cruising, were as the escorts was designed to be racy
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tekno on Jul 18th, 2010, 8:43pm

on 07/15/10 at 19:23:22, Matt wrote:
running the rs2000 ecu will give a bit more performance as the 2.3's was designed for comfort and cruising, were as the escorts was designed to be racy


But fitting rs2000 ecu to scorpio is not possible, right?
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Matt on Jul 19th, 2010, 6:20pm
it is but you need to leave the 2.3's ecu in in order to keep the pats happy then you need a non pats ecu off a rs2000 and splice it into the loom to run the engine
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tekno on Jul 21st, 2010, 10:38pm
Does it matter if its mk5 or mk6 ecu?

Just playing with idea..
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Matt on Jul 22nd, 2010, 6:47pm
it can be either so long as its non pats or external pats :)
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tekno on Jul 29th, 2010, 9:55pm
Hi.

2.3 Has camshaft position sensor. How does it work? Does changins camshafts to different model affect in somehow?

Am I right that Crankshaft position sensor is only used when starting engine, and then when it´s running, camshaft position sensor takes place of it.
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tompion on Jul 29th, 2010, 10:47pm
My guess is that the crankshaft sensor is for the sparks (coils fire on both strokes so no need for half speed sensor) & the camshaft sensor is for timing of the injectors.
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Matt on Jul 30th, 2010, 9:52am
the 2.0 16v socrpio lump has the same came profile as the rs2000 cams and also has the pickup for the cam sensor
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Mike H on Jul 30th, 2010, 1:17pm
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/23looms.htm


"The camshaft position sensor (B41) provides the PCM (A147), pin 76, with a reference point for the number 1 cylinder, which is necessary to ensure the correct sequence of injector opening"
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tekno on Aug 2nd, 2010, 4:04pm
I changed cams..

does not start now ???
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Mike H on Aug 2nd, 2010, 4:34pm
Erm...  http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/images/misc/unsure.gif
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Matt on Aug 2nd, 2010, 6:07pm
does it turn over?

have the cams you fitted got the pick up lobe for the cam sensor?

cam sensor wire fitted?
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tekno on Aug 21st, 2010, 1:03pm

on 08/02/10 at 18:07:30, Matt wrote:
have the cams you fitted got the pick up lobe for the cam sensor?


how do I find pick up lobe?? WHAT IS IT? cams are from rs2000
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Matt on Aug 21st, 2010, 1:16pm
look at the cams you took off, one cam (exhaust side i think) will have an extra bit of metal thats also machined / ground like the cam lobes, thats the cam sensor pick up lobe
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tekno on Aug 21st, 2010, 1:25pm
this? http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/2167/210820101.jpg

that "ear" is on both cams

cams have codes GC0955 and GC0956

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/4785/exhaust.png
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tekno on Aug 21st, 2010, 8:06pm
?
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Matt on Aug 21st, 2010, 8:21pm
from memory it's a smaller cam shaped lobe, but i could be thinking of the 24v, where does the cam sensor sit on the side of the cylinder head, front or rear of the engine? if both sets of cams are identical (apart from lobe profile) then i see no reason for it not to start

just to clear up any confusion, does the car crank over but not fire? or is it completely dead?

have you fitted the fuel injector multi plug correctly, can sensor plugged in?
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tompion on Aug 21st, 2010, 8:32pm
It should start & run quite happily with the cam sensor disconnected. – mine does, just tried it to make sure.
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tekno on Aug 21st, 2010, 8:41pm
one difference there is. Last part of shaft. In opposite place of camshaftgear

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1391/difference.png

but sensor is not quite there.

How does sensor work? Is it magnet, or what? :confused
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tekno on Jan 21st, 2011, 7:02am
My scorp have now been running with rs2000 cams  :D

Highly recommended mod ;-)

Stock ecu can cope with them just fine. But I predict bigger (than 177cc@2.7bar) injectors or increased fuel pressure would give more Nm to High rpm's. Now it feels just more torquer at part throttle and low-mid rpms.

On my buy list is rs2000 or SR20DE/KA24DE (is down adjusted 270cc @3bar ->x too big?) sidefeed injectors and fuel pressure regulator kit for adapting stock reg -> adjustable.

:-* ;)
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by adrian1981 on Nov 4th, 2011, 10:11am
So, as a conclusion, the RS2000 camshafts will fit a 2.3 engine, without other modifications?
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Mike H on Nov 4th, 2011, 10:43am
Never got to the bottom of the camshaft sensor question did we? ;D
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Dave2302 on Nov 4th, 2011, 5:44pm
There is NO need to run 2 ECU's its a bloody nightmare  :o

If RS2000 ECU is external PATS no need to keep the 2.3 ECU, cos it'll start and run on RS2000 ECU with Scorpio's External PATS Module and Scorpio Key  ;)

Even If RS2000 ECU is an internal PATS they aren't that hard to wire up, but you'd need RS2000 Key Reader, and Key to go with it as a set ;)

HTH

Cheers Dave
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Dave2302 on Nov 4th, 2011, 5:49pm

on 07/30/10 at 13:17:44, Mike H wrote:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/23looms.htm


"The camshaft position sensor (B41) provides the PCM (A147), pin 76, with a reference point for the number 1 cylinder, which is necessary to ensure the correct sequence of injector opening"


Exactly, at best it'll run in Limp Mode without it  ;)

Cheers Dave
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tompion on Nov 4th, 2011, 10:06pm
To clarify I was suggesting disconnecting the sensor to test if it was receiving the signal incorrectly, not as a solution. However my 2.3 runs perfectly without it – whatever strategy is used it definitely is limping. ;)
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Dave2302 on Nov 5th, 2011, 10:13am
Hi Dave,

Yeah I knew what you meant, but the Cam Pos is definitely used to determine which cylinder is on the firing stroke, so if they are sequential injection they won't run properly  ;)

Just out of interest, as I'm not totally familiar with the 4 cylinder engines, do they definitely use sequential injection, or do they batch fire the injectors ?

If the latter then the sensor isn't really doing anything important  :)

Cheers Dave
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tompion on Nov 5th, 2011, 12:20pm
Hi Dave,

I can’t state categorically it’s sequential however they’re fed from separate pins on the ECU so that would suggest it is.

How it copes presumably depends on how the ECU is programmed so what happens with one car/engine won’t necessarily happen with another.

My guess is it either goes over to batch firing or it tries the injector sequence on alternate revs A or alternate revs B (ABABABAB) & settles for the best one. If it were the later you’d wonder why they bother with the cam sensor, my as~umption there would be keeping down the work the ECU has to do is desirable.

I can’t detect any difference when disconnecting various sensors, I’ve not come across anything that reduces performance but I imagine emissions & fuel consumption take a hit.

Dave

I've changed above to my as~umption otherwise it gets changed to I disagreeumption  ;D
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Mike H on Nov 5th, 2011, 1:33pm
Apparently camshaft sensor is used to identify cylinder #1 for ignition.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ccmonitor.htm

That isn't to say more information isn't derived from that.
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Tekno on Nov 5th, 2011, 5:46pm

on 11/04/11 at 10:11:20, adrian1981 wrote:
So, as a conclusion, the RS2000 camshafts will fit a 2.3 engine, without other modifications?


yup. done it. they have the same timings but more lift, and knobs in the same position sensor points for the Hall sensor.

rs2000 and scorpio 2.0 16v camshafts are all the same
Title: Re: RS2000 camshafts to 2.3 16V
Post by Mike H on Nov 5th, 2011, 6:53pm
Result! ;D


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