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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> Timing chain rattle on 24V?
        
(Message started by: tlundkvi on Oct 12^th, 2009, 7:54pm)

Title: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by tlundkvi on Oct 12^th, 2009, 7:54pm

Can somebody describe how the "classical" timing chain rattle should be like? Should the most significant sound be a metal knock at 1-3 seconds interval on the top RHS section that disappears after a while?

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by amigafan2003 on Oct 12^th, 2009, 8:47pm

Any longer than a few seconds on cold startup is bad. If it rattles whilst warm or after initial starting that's bad as well.

Air con compressors can rattle sometimes - switch the A/C off to make sure it's not that.

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by gozz on Oct 12^th, 2009, 11:42pm

tlundkvi.
The sound of a 24v loose chain is best described as a metallic growl.Most of them seem to do it when starting from cold for a second or two,but then no more for the rest of the day,it is of course due to oil draining from the chain tensioners.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by tlundkvi on Oct 13^th, 2009, 8:27am

The sound is only at startup and disappears pretty quickly. I've heard the sound only in the evening after 24h standing still. Outside temp is also at night around 0 C. This morning there was nothing. Does anybody know, for sure not recommended, but is it a big difference in doing tensioners+related alone vs. tensioners+related + chain (if it comes down to some parts are not available).

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by Baz on Oct 13^th, 2009, 10:57pm

Try putting your foot hard down on the accelerator pedal and turn the engine over with your foot pressed to the floor. The car will not fire and it will put oil back into the tensioners...... Worked fine for my cars!!

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by lesterlad on Oct 13^th, 2009, 11:16pm

on 10/13/09 at 22:57:30, Baz wrote:

Try putting your foot hard down on the accelerator pedal and turn the engine over with your foot pressed to the floor. The car will not fire and it will put oil back into the tensioners...... Worked fine for my cars!!

Would that not cause "flooding" therefore making it difficult to start normally ?

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 14^th, 2009, 7:18am

on 10/13/09 at 23:16:57, lesterlad wrote:

Would that not cause "flooding" therefore making it difficult to start normally ?

hi there

no, when the WOT relay is activated, the ECU switches off the injectors, so the car won't start.

*** try it out on a warm car first! you don't want to try it on a cold engine only to find the WOT relay isn't working and the engine fires at 6k rpm! :o you won't have an issue with timing chain rattle after that! ;) ***

hth

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by tlundkvi on Oct 14^th, 2009, 11:30am

If it passes with light throttle, why use full :)

Does the oil matter with respect to the tensioners' functionality? I use Mobil 1 ESP FORMULA 5W-30, which is considered top range. Would the considerably cheaper Ford Formula F 5W-30 Synthetic be a better bet, oil change is due within a month anyway. Levels are fine, colour IMHO quite normal. I would even consider 0W-30 because of the colder northern climate.

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by Geoff_W on Oct 14^th, 2009, 6:40pm

Because you need the WOT (wide open throttle) relay to activate to cut the fuel to the injectors so it does not start :)

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by Baz on Oct 14^th, 2009, 9:29pm

What Geoff said!! ;D

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by gozz on Oct 14^th, 2009, 11:05pm

WOT Geoff said even ;D

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by a900one on Oct 16^th, 2009, 5:25pm

If I drive into my drive the front rh corner is lower than the rest of the car and I dont get the rattle, hows that work ?. ???

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by Basil100 on Oct 23^rd, 2009, 6:32pm

Because the rh camshaft chain tensioneer is still just immersed in oil thus does not drain out the same.Prooves that it is the rh cahain tensioner which is the weak link.

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by tlundkvi on Oct 23^rd, 2009, 8:22pm

Basil, do you know whether the tensioners can be replaced without taking the whole front of the engine to atoms? All parts are hard to obtain, it might be not all parts required can even be bought.

BTW, no hint of rattle for a week on cold start, changed the oil on Monday.

Edit: But having said that, knock on wood, it will be back tomorrow.

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by tootman318 on Oct 23^rd, 2009, 9:08pm

left hand one is easy. right hand one is between the v. blocked in by coolant housing. but you can make your own gaskets and the o ring is available from plumbers merchants. not too bad a job really

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by tlundkvi on Oct 23^rd, 2009, 9:41pm

You mean seen from the front left side (alternator side) as from this picture nr. 4?

http://www.elcats.ru/ford/Parts.aspx?Model=84&Group=00400008&AtId=24028

The actual tensioner (15 in figure), is it accessible somehow from the side, and how does it attach to the blade? Can't really make from the figure where it goes.

It think the ticking I heard could also come from the chain hitting nr. 5 guide. It was not completely with regular intervals, maybe once per 2 seconds.

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by gozz on Oct 24^th, 2009, 12:52am

tlundkvi.
The tensioner plungers are withdrawn (locked back) for removal with an allen key after removing the centre bolt.The right hand (drivers side) is buried behind the alternator,and the left one is as stated is in the V underneath the intake manifolding,neither of them may be described as very handy !!
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by tlundkvi on Oct 24^th, 2009, 4:40pm

But if this is a couple of hour job (as stated in the 24V timing chain section) it could be something to really consider, especially if they're accessible from the outside. The tensioners, they are then just pushing the blade and not fixed to them?

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by tootman318 on Oct 24^th, 2009, 5:24pm

on 10/24/09 at 16:40:52, tlundkvi wrote:

yes, they just push against the blade. mine were ok to do as engine was out. very tight access when engine still in car!!!!

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by a900one on Oct 25^th, 2009, 1:06pm

Has anyone repaired/cleaned with any good results one of these tensioners, or it just a mater of replacing them.

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by tlundkvi on Oct 25^th, 2009, 1:31pm

Common sense already says they should not wear (except for gaskets and seals) unless they have been beaten by the chain and blade for ages... New ones were at FMD available for ca 150 euros in Finland, if refurbishment would be possible that is a great saving.

For the 2.3 engine they're just 50 euros, but they are significantly different.

Title: Re: Timing chain rattle on 24V?
Post by Tekno on Oct 26^th, 2009, 9:38pm

http://ruohoranta.fi/files/startup.avi

timing chain rattle? do you think tappets also are sounding little bit worn?

btw that's 2.3 not 24v but same question still 8)