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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> Timing Chain
        
(Message started by: Twinktina on Nov 20^th, 2009, 2:22am)

Title: Timing Chain
Post by Twinktina on Nov 20^th, 2009, 2:22am

Greeting from the other side of the world.
We didnt have the Scorpio offically imported here in New Zealand, most of the ones here are private imports.
The last Euro Fords made here were the Mk2 Sierras.

Anyway, I have a 2.0L twincam motor that I've been overhauling and I've got a question reagrding the timing chain.

As parts for these cars are not available from Ford here I had to import all the parts from the UK.

I got all the parts from Burtons including an AE brand timing chain.

I'm a little worried about the sideways bow in the new chain.

If i hold the chain at one end horizontaly it has 8 inches of drop at the other end.
The old Ford chain that had done over 200,000Km has only 7 inches of drop.

This dont seem right to me, I am worried that if i put it in it will bust the lower chain guide again.

I asked Burtons about the chain and they said "it's just the way they are" and they pretty much fobbed me off.

What are your guys thoughts, experinces regarding chains?

Also, I got a bottom end gasket kit and it didnt have the front crankshaft seal or lower cover seal in it, it did have the rear crank seal though.
Again I asked Burtons and they said " yeah they dont come with those two parts"
Anyone else brought a bottom end kit and found they were short those two parts?

Cheers
Peter

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Highlander on Nov 20^th, 2009, 10:33am

Hello and Welcome to the site.

is it the 8v or 16v 2 litre?

Which model year is it?

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Twinktina on Nov 20^th, 2009, 8:08pm

The engine is an 8 valve unit, not so sure what year it came from as I've only got the motor and gearbox as a transplant for another vehicle.
It does say N8 on the front.

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Highlander on Nov 20^th, 2009, 8:14pm

Is it out of a Scorpio or a Granada?

This is the Scorpio 8v engine code NSD

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/2.0idocmotor96.jpg

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Twinktina on Nov 20^th, 2009, 9:00pm

It was advertised as a scorpio engine / gbox but i didnt see the car it came out of.
It doesnt look like that engine though, it has a black plastic cam cover with a valley running down the middle (not unlike the Lotus head) and the words "2.0 Litre DOHC" on the top.

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by gozz on Nov 20^th, 2009, 9:10pm

Sounds like the old Granada Scorpio twin cam.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Twinktina on Nov 20^th, 2009, 10:10pm

It could well be the old version, i do know it has an identical timing chain layout as shown in the DOHC2000 part on this page
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/timingchain29cos.htm

and the guides are exactly the same as the ones on this page http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/chain%20guides.jpg
Which brings me to another question, where can i buy a replacement sets of these guides? It needs to be a place where i can order online and they ship internationally.

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Tekno on Nov 20^th, 2009, 11:26pm

on 11/20/09 at 22:10:40, Twinktina wrote:

Try this (you just need to know parts FINIS code/number and describe the item. Payment is done via paypal):

https://www.fordpartsuk.com/partsrequest.htm

I have almost same situation, Scorpio parts aren't very widely imported to Finland so I usually make orders from UK.

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Twinktina on Nov 21^st, 2009, 8:57pm

Here is a picture of the engine.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2640/4123033576_7281e619e1.jpg

So does anybody know the FINS code for the chain guides?

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Tekno on Nov 21^st, 2009, 11:29pm

GUIDE, LOWER 1022215
GUIDE, UPPER 6177698

It's recommended to change tensioner also..., finis for it is 1662847

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Twinktina on Nov 22^nd, 2009, 12:07am

Thanks for that,

Yes also changed the tensioner already, in fact have done rings, bearings, valve guides, seals, gaskets, timing chain, oil chain, tensioner, and tensioner arm...in fact almost everything apart from the guides...engine now specs up to factory again.

It's almost back together again looking resplendant in a coat of Ford Blue.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2518/4123449728_a84c28c4be.jpg

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Tekno on Nov 22^nd, 2009, 12:13am

Wow :o

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Tompion on Nov 22^nd, 2009, 12:39am

Make sure you're getting parts for the N8 engine (I don't know if the parts differ from those on the NSD engine fitted to the Scorpio II)

There's a list of spark plug fitments with engine numbers here:
eBay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BOSCH-Super4-Spark-Plugs-GRANADA-SCORPIO-2.0-ALL-MODELS_W0QQitemZ180434611765QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxq20091120?IMSfp=TL091120171002r28379)
It only shows the N8 fitted to some of the Granada & Granada Scorpio I cars.

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Tekno on Nov 22^nd, 2009, 12:52am

Indeed. N8 is carburator dohc 8v engine. N9 is with injection.. and NSD is 16V

anyway, I checked again those chain guides. They are used in all of these dohc engines 85-98. Shouldn't need to worry about compatibility

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Twinktina on Nov 22^nd, 2009, 1:20am

Yes it appears there is a lot of inter-changability between the engine models...infact some of the parts i got already have Zetec markings on them.
I also have the EFI manifold and computer so I could upspec it to a N9 model.
I was hoping to find a 16v head sometime and upgrade. The pistons already have the 4 indentations machined into them for that head.
I have read elsewhere there were more engines after the N8 and N9, including the N7, N5 and N3. I dont know what they were fitted into but supposedly they all share the same sump, bellhousing and head stud patterns and there is a certain amount of inter-changeability.

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by pinto on Nov 22^nd, 2009, 1:00pm

Nice to see a proper 8v twink engine :D especially a carb lump !

changing to 16v isnt something i'd consider imediately - the beauty of the 8v head is its lazier, torquey nature - and with a few simple mods, it'll output more than the 125bhp the injection version produces.

If you're doing the timing chain, then i'd highly reccomend that you fit the inlet cam from the DOHC injection engine, as it has higher lift/duration than the carb one and will act as a performance cam :) no need to swap the exhaust cam, as its the same on carb or injection models.

Dump the TDLM carb - its only a 28mm secondary, and thats vaccum operated too so it wont give much "go". This engine responds VERY well to the 38DGAS carb from the capri ;) though you will need to make an adaptor between the carb and manifold as the bases are different.

finally, bolt on a free flow filter and a decent exhaust, and the above mods will see in the region of 140bhp/170ftlbs

This might be of help/interest to you too :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330337209169&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Out of interest.... is this heading into a Cortina ? ;D

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Twinktina on Nov 22^nd, 2009, 8:19pm

Yes it is heading to a MK4 Cortina.

The rear disks from a Scorpio have already been fitted to it, will do the front in the future and I've got the ABS computer and loom as well...just didnt fit it yet
Power windows and central locking from it were also fitted.

I was considering fitting an injection cam to the 8v just as a "try it and see" project.

Origonaly i was looking at using a Sierra cosworth engine for the transplant but they are not so common here and the the ones that are around have been messed with and given a hard life by the boy racers.

The other option was buy a whole Sierra cosworth to get the engine but apart from costing 6000-7000 pounds they are all getting quite high in the milage and are going to need some serious money spent.

I read the 8v is a good cruiser engine and thats what I'm after.
Not so much more HP than the origonal SOHC but almost 30% more torque.

It will also be good to have an engine that runs good on unleaded fuel and not have to worry about valve seat ression.

Oh and an engine that doesnt leak oil....
But at least it stopped the underside going rusty.. ;D

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by pinto on Nov 23^rd, 2009, 11:58am

Cool ;D

I beleive that there is a clearance issue with the injection manifold and the 'tina bonnet so you might have to look into that if you do go with injection. carb should clear fine tho :)

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by tootman318 on Nov 23^rd, 2009, 5:44pm

on 11/23/09 at 11:58:28, pinto wrote:

Cool ;D

I beleive that there is a clearance issue with the injection manifold and the 'tina bonnet so you might have to look into that if you do go with injection. carb should clear fine tho :)

hi, just put 24v in my mk3 cortina, was worried about bonnet closing ok but its fine. is the old dohc any taller than the bob? i couldnt say.

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by pinto on Nov 23^rd, 2009, 7:19pm

Its the angle at which the manifold sits that causes issues i beleive.

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Twinktina on Nov 23^rd, 2009, 9:48pm

If I did decide to go with injection i wouldnt use the Ford manifold. It's got very small bores, horrible right angle turns and a squashed and flattened port shape.
I was thinking of having the carb manifold drilled and welded to take the injectors and throttle body.
The carb manifold looks like it will flow better, nice big ports, smooth turns, equal length pipes.
The engine itself is a little taller than the SOHC but is a little shorter, it will sit further back as well to allow the sump clearence from the crossmember.
For a start it will be bolted on to a type 9 gearbox until i get a slip-joint driveshaft organised to suit the much better MT75 box.

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Tekno on Nov 23^rd, 2009, 9:55pm

I remember seeing Suzuki GSX-R throttle bodies attached to DOHC manifold WITHOUT any big modifications.

Edit: Found it:

http://gpz900r.se/images/picture_throttle/GSXR_on_Ford_RS2000.jpg

ah it were 2.3 manifold..

and Suzuki GSXR750 98-99 part

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Twinktina on Nov 23^rd, 2009, 10:58pm

on 11/23/09 at 17:44:23, tootman318 wrote:

hi, just put 24v in my mk3 cortina, was worried about bonnet closing ok but its fine. is the old dohc any taller than the bob? i couldnt say.

I like the MK3's, Bono from U2 has a MK3 with a 3.0 V6 and he says it's "his car of choice" when he's back home.
Says it's the original Irish musle car.

There is a guy that did a V6 Cosworth conversion in his MK5 here. http://www.escortupgrades.co.uk/Cortina/Cosworth%20Conversion/Cosworth%20Conversion%20-%20Index.htm

V6 cossies are very rare here in NZ, Saw one in a Capri at a car show a while back. Talking with the owner he said he had so many offers to buy it and he even had a guy offer him a blank cheque and told "you just fill in the amount, I want your car" but so far he's not tempted to part with it.

A late model Cosworth Scorpio can up for sale a few months back and it's believed to be the only one in NZ.
It was origonally shipped to Australia by Ford as a demo model but they never picked up on them and eventually the car found it's way to NZ.
It had medium Km on it and sold for NZD $10,000 (around 4,000 pounds).

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by tootman318 on Nov 24^th, 2009, 5:37pm

on 11/23/09 at 22:58:40, Twinktina wrote:

Must admit my mk3 is my pride and joy. Now with the bob auto, its a serious bit of kit! Still playing at moment but when you get her to bout 3000 revs, and floor it, it just flys! Makes ya trousers twitch

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by Twinktina on Nov 27^th, 2009, 7:45am

It lives! ;D

The final parts arrived from the UK today and got it all together and running.

Test run here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw4I2JN5T8I

Thanks to all you guys for the advice and help.
Now I just got to make it fit in the car....

Title: Re: Timing Chain
Post by pinto on Nov 30^th, 2009, 6:29pm

Ford made that nice and easy :) all the four pot gearboxes will bolt onto your engine so you have a choice of the MT75or type N for 5 cogs or the type E 4 speeder.