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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
        
(Message started by: Dave2302 on May 2nd, 2010, 11:48am)
Title: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Dave2302 on May 2nd, 2010, 11:48am
Hi Guys,

Can anone help me out here.....

As some of you may know I'm building a 4x4 24V Cossie Puma.

A bit ahead of myself yet lol, but I,m gonna be using the Puma loom, with extra wires added for the 24V Engine.
I will also be keeping the Puma GEM module which does it's alarm and central locking off the Push Button type Key.

The Puma is EECV, and its PATS is part of the Engine ECU, i.e it is the ECU that needs to "see" the key chip.

Is the Scorpio EECV ECU the same or does it have a separate PATS module which signals the engine ECU ???

I want to retain PATS, so do not wish to by pass it.
Does anyone have the wiring diagram that they could PM to me for these systems.

Cheers Dave
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by scorpio_man on May 2nd, 2010, 11:56am
hi there

iirc, the early cars had separate units, but later car were 'built on' to the ecu unit.

hth
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Matt on May 2nd, 2010, 6:33pm
Every scorpio ive seen has had a separate pats module that sat directly next to the ecu
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Dave2302 on May 2nd, 2010, 7:29pm
Okay, well I guess I'll find out tommorrow, when I strip the dash and loom out of the old girl lol.

Is it labelled, or do I just have to guess which module it is ???

Does anyone have a wiring diagram ?

Thanks Dave
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Matt on May 2nd, 2010, 7:47pm
you can get to the ecu and pats by taking the glove box out on a scorp, its a little black unit, sits next to the ecu on a bracket from memory, and does say pats unit on it! you'll have the central control module on top, the ecu its self is well caged in, you'll have to drill out rivets to free it!

from memory its just on connectors through out the whole mess of loom behind the dash, the key transponder is easy to get out once you cut all the loom tape, although a purple/blue (or may be purple/yellow) wire is crimped to a bunch of others and needs cutting out
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Snoopy on May 3rd, 2010, 7:32am
NO wiring diagrams ever given to us for the PATS by FORD. Sorry unable to help with that one.
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Dave2302 on May 3rd, 2010, 11:42am
Okay Snoopy,

Well maybe I can help the site out there, I have a very good mate who works for FMD, workshop Manager,

I just know he'll copy 'em and post them up to me or if he's dissapeared in the last few months since I spoke with him, I'll produce my own diagram.

I'm gonna untape the entire Scorpio loom and pull out every single wire related to the whole Engine and Security Systems, also the whole Climate Control wiring system as it looks like I may be using the Scorpio Heater A/C system in the Puma.

Will let you personally have a copy soon, and its up to you who you give access to it.

Cheers Guys,

Dave
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Matt on May 3rd, 2010, 12:30pm
if the site doesnt want them can i have a copy please, would help with some of the scorpios i get my hands on
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Dave2302 on May 3rd, 2010, 1:04pm
Yes Matt, not a problem !!

Further to the forgoing I've just had a brainwave (oh dear).....

Unfortunately the Scorpio engine gearbox and engine / box loom is already remved, so I can't test it properly but....

What I have done is this,

The Puma keys won't (obviously) turn the barrel in the Scorpio steering lock and vice versa, so I unclipped the ignition switch and inserted screwdriver.

Put the red Scorpio key in Scorpio ign barrell and turned ignition on and off, red LED blinked...., quickly turned ign off, removed red Scorpio key and put Puma key in barrell, turned ign on with screwdriver, LED blinked, quickly repeated this with spare Puma key and other black Scorpio Key.

Theoretically I now have 4 keys coded to the Scorpio PATS, but unable to start it up lol, or see power at starter motor wire cos theres no inhibitor switch lol

I performed the following test.....

Removed all keys from the Scorpio and turned ignition on with screwdriver, LED blinks rapidly, presumably telling me PATS has immobilized ?

Then put black Scorpio key in barrell and switched on ignition, one flash at LED then extinguished, presumably ready to start?

Repeated this test with the 2 Puma keys with the same one blink LED result.

So hopefully I have coded both Puma keys to the Scorpio PATS, am I correct ?

Cheers Dave
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Mike H on May 3rd, 2010, 1:19pm
Seems like it, ;D according to my owner's book:

LED on once for 3 seconds then goes out, key is OK, system is ready to start.

LED flashes rapidly for 1 minute, then repeated at irregular intervals, key code not recognised.

LED on for 1 minute then flashes, system malfunction.
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Matt on May 3rd, 2010, 1:22pm
I believe you are correct dave, but im sure snoopy will confirm

pm also sent
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Simmo on May 3rd, 2010, 2:05pm
In the absence of  'The all seeing wise one' have a look at This page (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/pats.htm) which should have all the detail you need. :)
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by scorpio_man on May 3rd, 2010, 4:28pm
hi dave

if it was me, i'd scrap the PATS and fit something more meaty to protect your investment.

you'd be horrified how easy it is to by pass it.

hth
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Big_Green_Tank on May 10th, 2010, 6:44pm

on 05/03/10 at 16:28:55, scorpio_man wrote:
hi dave

if it was me, i'd scrap the PATS and fit something more meaty to protect your investment.

you'd be horrified how easy it is to by pass it.

hth

By pass the PATS?  With the tape the old key to the steering column trick or somat more brutal?
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by amigafan2003 on May 11th, 2010, 8:36am

Quote:
By pass the PATS?  With the tape the old key to the steering column trick or somat more brutal?


You don't even need an old key - but that's a much as I'm willing to divulge n a public forum.

I have a supplimentary Clifford G5 on my Scorpio.
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Matt on May 11th, 2010, 1:12pm
As amigafan2003 says its very easy, but again i will not be parting with the information!

a proper wiring diagram of the pats would be helpful to me considering the amount of scrapper fords i tinker with out of scrap yards and the fact i plan to modify my car so that standard bypass methods cannot be used :P

the taped key is an easy one but requires a key in the first place
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Snoopy on May 14th, 2010, 8:26am
I am sure the site will benefit from a wiring diagram for the PATS but it really is true that it is so very easy to by pass and start the car.... MOST GOOD car thieves know the method already.

It was a good system when it was introduced but has been surpassed by newer and better methods ( I hope).
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Highlander on May 14th, 2010, 9:31am
Has anyone actually heard of a Scorpio being stolen by bypassing the PATS?

In fact I dont think I can remember hearing of a Scorpio ever being stolen..

I think it was PeteB that had an attempted theft but the PATS system saved it?
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Matt on May 14th, 2010, 12:16pm
ive never heard of a stolen scorpio, seen a few attemts but thats as far as its gone
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Dave2302 on May 14th, 2010, 7:32pm
Me neither, but lets face it, if someone really wants to steal your car, they'll winch it up on a recovery lorry in broad daylight, and I bet no one would take a blind bit of notice.

PATS stops spotty oik taking your motor for a joy ride racing the local one way system.

Security is not a priority for me, where we live we don't lock our houses, leave the keys in the cars outside the pub, and think nothing of leaving cash on the bar when we go to the bog.

Everyone knows everyone and we have zero crime rate.

Sadly when I lived "darn sarf", if it weren't welded down or concreted in some theivin' scum bag would nick it :(

Regards Dave
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Snoopy on May 15th, 2010, 8:02am
Yes several reported stolen from past owners on here.
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Dave2302 on May 15th, 2010, 9:49am
Yeah, Snoopy,

That's very true but the questions are lol :-

How were they nicked (probably don't know unless they were subsequently recovered),

Where (area) where they stolen from,

And of course, (without casting any aspersions), were they actually nicked or just "dissapeared" and a subsequent "Insurance Claim" put in !!

We'll never know the answer to that one !!

:) :)

What I do know for sure is PATS definitely stopped all the little turds joyriding, source Police Car Crime Info ;)

Cheers Dave
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Mike H on May 16th, 2010, 11:04pm

on 05/14/10 at 19:32:09, Dave2302 wrote:
Sadly when I lived "darn sarf", if it weren't welded down or concreted in some theivin' scum bag would nick it :(

We used to say "if not screwed down" but 'spect that's not good enough anymore ;D


Mike H, darn sarf then left a bit
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Dave2302 on May 17th, 2010, 8:32pm
:) :) :)
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by scorpio_man on May 18th, 2010, 9:39pm
hi dave

i've found a document on PATS. not sure if it's any help or not as i've not really looked at it, but i'll email it to you.

hth
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Dave2302 on May 18th, 2010, 11:16pm
Cheers I'll have a look see.

I have now got the 'official' ford diagram, but it includes ALL wiring, so when I get time I'll re draw just the PATS bit and email it to you

Regards Dave
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Matt on May 19th, 2010, 1:26pm
and me please :D
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Cosray on Jun 7th, 2010, 9:17pm

on 05/18/10 at 23:16:25, Dave2302 wrote:
Cheers I'll have a look see.

I have now got the 'official' ford diagram, but it includes ALL wiring, so when I get time I'll re draw just the PATS bit and email it to you

Regards Dave



Could you do/PM me a copy as well Dave? Having the odd sort of troubles now and then what with my new engine compartment loom that was put in the other day...

Thanks,
Ray
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Stixy on Jun 8th, 2010, 10:37pm

on 05/03/10 at 16:28:55, scorpio_man wrote:
hi dave

if it was me, i'd scrap the PATS and fit something more meaty to protect your investment.

you'd be horrified how easy it is to by pass it.

hth


This is a bit of a concern  . I thought the system was bullet proof and allways had ultimate faith in the fact without the keys its not going to be driven away  .
 
 I have bought several Scorpio's in the past with missing keys but i have never even tried to bypass the system in fear of blowing somthing  and up until i got my FDS2000 i have had to get them sorted the expensive way .

I have noticed on cars that i have broken up the manual models dont have a separate PATS module
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 9th, 2010, 7:26am
hi there

i wouldn't worry too much about it.

it's like everything else. easy when you know how, but if you don't, well that's a different question.
Title: Re: 24V Scorpio PATS ???? lololol
Post by Dave2302 on Jun 10th, 2010, 10:40am
Dunno if this applies to the Manual Scorpios, but a lot of Fords with EECV have PATS built into the main powertrain ECU.

Will let you have the diagrams when I've sorted the wheat from the chaff so to speak, hey are all on a disc, but need condensing into PATS only, and tbh I haven't looked closely at it all yet, and won't do until I get round to the wiring on the Puma.

Front and rear 4x4 is all instaled now, next step test fit engine and mark bulkhead / floor for cutting and putting tunnel in.

Dave


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