Ford Scorpio Forum - Print Page


    
      
        Ford Scorpio Forum
        (https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)
      

        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
        
(Message started by: faffi on May 16^th, 2010, 9:16pm)

Title: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 16^th, 2010, 9:16pm

Hi!

It's been some time since I last posted - I went to a Mondeo, thinking the Scorpios were getting a bit old when I decided it was time to upgrade on my basic 1997 sedan. Big mistake. After two years trying to fool myself the Mondeo would suffice, I have spotted a low-mileage 2.9 Cosworth sedan and am now in the process of convincing its owner it's a good idea to sell it. To me :D

Now to the question - should the Cosworth ideally be geared lower? Looking at the performance figures from Top Gear and Autocar, both the acceleration figures and top speed figures suggests that it's geared too tall for optimum performance. Or it doesn't really make 207 hp. In addition, it seems to have a very tall first and a silly big jump between 2nd and 3rd gear, further reducing acceleraton.

Also: According to a test I found on this site, the Cosworth seems to carry a very tall gearing with 60 mph attainable in 1st, 86 in 2nd and 126 in 3rd. Its top speed is apparently 138 at 5100 rpm. However, this doesn't correspond with the picture on the front page here that indicates 5600 rpm at 142 mph.

So I'm a little confused - does anybody know what's correct, as there is nearly a 7% difference between the two?

Sorry for being so long-winded - I tend to get carried away...

Eirik

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Tons_of_fun on May 17^th, 2010, 8:11am

Hi Faffi. Yep i also think the cossie is a little highly geared. This really isnt a bad thing though as cruising @70 mph in top = 2,500 rpm. Any more than that the fuel economy would be un bearable. I imagine the reason Ford geared them this way was to give the car the most progressive acceleration without compramising the refinment & smoothness of the gear change . If it's quicker acceleration your after a 2.0 ltr diff can be retro fitted which will lower the gearing significantly. A 0-60 time of around 6.5 seconds is easily achieved using this mod ( ask Highlander ) :-) ;-). As for the official performance figures, the information on this site is correct, although ( as some members will confirm ) they do go a little faster then 142 mph ( i couldnt possibly comment ;-) ). Hope that helps... Craig :-)

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Dave2302 on May 17^th, 2010, 10:09am

Yes they were overgeared from factory to "tame them".

Stuarts is very sharp with a 2.0 diff, but a little thirsty, an Ideal diff for more general road use is a 2.3 diff.

Remember tho you will need the VSS gear to keep the speedo and trip computer readings "correct", (thats another debate) lol, and also you'll need to pop the cover off the diffs and change the output flanges for the cossie ones as cossie shafts cvs are bigger.

Other than that, doddle to fit and well worth the effort.

HTH

Dave

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 17^th, 2010, 12:56pm

Sounds like something to look into - once I wriggle the Cosworth from the owner's hands :)

Thanks for the replies ;)

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Highlander on May 17^th, 2010, 5:08pm

Get the 4.27 fitted!

I can get almost 20 to the gallon with it! ;)

I honestly think around town it does better mpg, its only when you get into top it starts to struggle as the revs sit around 1000 higher for the same speed

I like getting off the mark quick, i dont mind someone tearing past me once i level out at 80, its the pulling away bit i like ;)

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by tlundkvi on May 17^th, 2010, 7:08pm

Somebody should build a 2-speed diff :) That would be a nice project :D

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 17^th, 2010, 9:16pm

on 05/17/10 at 17:08:48, Highlander wrote:

I agree - particularly since I never cruise beyond 80 mph and even that is just a few times when on vacations. Most of the year, I'm limited to 65 mph or less if I want to retain my permit and not throw money into the state treasury :(

With a 4.27, the car should accelerate harder than the standard geared car all the way until it hits the rev limiter, I would assume?

4.27, is that from the 2.0 16 valver? 1000 rpm extra at 80 mph sounds substantial, tough - perhaps the 4.09 is a better compromise between relaxed crusing and strong acceleration?

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Matt on May 18^th, 2010, 12:00pm

stick a manual box in it and get the best of both worlds :D

mine shifts off the mark then at 70 does nearly 40 mpg! as its revving nearly 800 rpm lower in 5th then the autos in 4th

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Tons_of_fun on May 18^th, 2010, 12:20pm

Show off :-p

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 18^th, 2010, 12:58pm

on 05/18/10 at 12:00:12, Matt wrote:

stick a manual box in it and get the best of both worlds :D

mine shifts off the mark then at 70 does nearly 40 mpg! as its revving nearly 800 rpm lower in 5th then the autos in 4th

Is there a writeup somewhere about what's required for this? I once did a Granada 2.3 auto -> manual conversion - everything needed for fitting the clutch pedal etc. were in place in the auto chassis. I fitted a complete unit (gearbox and engine) so it wasn't all the much of an issue, but I expect there to be far more involved with the Scorpio?

But 800 rpm less at 70 mph - are you loping along with 1700 rpm at that speed?

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Tons_of_fun on May 18^th, 2010, 3:34pm

You should be sat in the car when the it's doing 6,000 rpm in 4th !!! Scary stuff :-) :-)

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 18^th, 2010, 7:28pm

"And then, just as I hit redline in 4th at 200 mph, I shifted into 5th, floored it and produced a nice burnout on my way into outer space!"

:D

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 19^th, 2010, 8:13am

Atschoally, me thinks the two (auto and manual) have (nearly?) the same top gear reduction of 0.75, which should give the same cruising rpm for any given speed regardless of what gearbox is used. Hence, due to the lock-up function, cruising mileage should be very similar between the two. It's in city traffic where a manual gearbox should have a benefit regarding fuel consumption over the automatic - at the cost of having to give the left foot a good workout every morning getting to work ;)

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Tons_of_fun on May 19^th, 2010, 8:17am

LOL. Believe me m8. A manual box makes a HUGE difference ! Matt has converted his cossie to manual & i was daft enough to go for a drive with him when it was finished. It was pulling 110 mph in 3rd before we ran out of road & the brakes got a cooking :-) ;-) ( on private road of course.....Officer ) ;-). I think Matt is going to throw a 2.0 ltr diff on...just for a laugh. The real crazy work will be happening a while later as a 4.0 ltr engine is due to be installed soon.....4 ltr engine + manual gearbox + 2 ltr diff = a LOT of very upset Ferrari owners lol

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 19^th, 2010, 9:05am

:D sounds like a plan ;)

I am definitely not questioning the enhanced performance with the manual - not wasting power on dragging the converter along with all its slip will no doubt give far better acceleration. Just having the extra gear will help.

My 2.3 manual was redlined in each gear as follows (roughly) provided it had the 0.83 ratio for 5th (which, as a 1997 model, it should):

5th: 141
4th: 117
3rd: 81
2nd: 56
1st: 32

So if we continue with that, what do we get if we change the final drive ratio from the 3.91 (I believe I saw that figure someplace recently) of the 2.3 to the 3.64 of the 2.9, we get:

5th: 151
4th: 126
3rd: 87
2nd: 60
1st: 35

Even if we say that the 2.3 had the lowest final drive ratio of 4.27 (which I do not think it has), the 2.9 would still hit 6300 rpm @ 95 mph - a far cry from 110. And if we on top of that say that the gearbox was from the latest edition, 100 mph would still be the limit.

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 19^th, 2010, 9:14am

If we continue this theme and assume that the manual is the most common with the 0.83 top gear ratio and that the final drive ratio is 3.91 for the 2.3, which should make my figures fairly accurate, these are the maximum speeds for each gear with a 4.27 final reduction:

5th: 129
4th: 107
3rd: 74
2nd: 51
1st: 29

Be prepared for a lot of wheelspin, I say http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/YaBBImages/grin.gif

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 19^th, 2010, 9:47am

Finally found the reductions on the automatic as well - I do not think they are listed in the specification section, however?

They are:
4th: 0.75
3rd: 1.00
2nd: 1.47
1st: 2.47

So let's see how a stock 2.9 will do at 6300 rpm (the 12V will be limited to 5800 rpm and hence not reach the same speeds):

4th: 168 (you'll get 166 in 5th if you fit a manual from the diesel or late 2.3)
3rd: 126
2nd: 86
1st: 51

As you can see, compared to having a 2.9 converted to a manual with the stock final drive, 1st on the auto ends up somwhere in between 1st and 2nd for a maual whereas 2nd in the auto equals 3rd in the manual and 3rd in the auto equals 4th in the manual. 5th in the manual will be quite a bit shorter than 4th in the auto, giving a better overall ratio.

So not only is the automatic hampered by a tall first gear and a resulting big cap (and drop in revs) between 1st and 2nd gear, it will also suffer above 125 mph due to its tall gearing in top. Add the slurring torque converter, and it becomes clear why the car would accelerate much harder with a manual gearbox, particularly up to 85 mph.

I would say that with the stock final drive and the low geared manual, overall gearing for the 2.9 would strike an almost ideal compromise between performance and economy as well as relaxed cruising.

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 19^th, 2010, 9:56am

It's sort pf pathetic to keep on replying to one's own posts, but I need to get this off me chest ;)

My 2.3 was listed to have 147 hp and my former 2.9 Cologne with 150hp. The latter was heavier due to having an automatic gearbox as well as aircon and some other equipment. It also had to fight the same tall gearing as the Cosworth, without the ability to rev past 5800 rpm (I believe mine hit the limiter with 5700 rpm indicated).

Still, they ran neck-and-neck to both 60 and 90 mpg with perhaps the 2.9 marginally quicker according to my unscientific timing. It also felt like it had a little better passing power compared to the small engine from what I could gather. So despite the bigger engine having more torque, which will to some degree aid acceleration, these numbers do suggest that either the 2.9 made more than 3 extra ponies in reality or the autmatic gearbox is more efficient that I have come to believe.

Any thoughts on this?

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Dave2302 on May 19^th, 2010, 10:25am

Nice bit of maths but it's wrong.

Matt will be using a hybrid manual built from a Diesel gearbox back end and a 4x4 front half, which gives him a taller fifth gear ;)

Also the lowest diff ratio is 2.0 and the tallest is 24V

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 19^th, 2010, 11:25am

If it's wrong, please advice so that I can correct.

Does the 4x4 use a different ratio than the 3.64? If so, you can use that to calculate any changes gear by gear if you want and have the numbers for that ratio.

The 2.0 16 has the lowest ratio of 4.27, but according to a sheet on this site it's shared with the 2.3, which I believe to be wrong. The 2.0 8 has a 4.09 ratio on its final drive. The tallest ratio is for the diesel with 3.35 IIRC.

But if we base this on the diesel manual together with the standard final drive ratio of 3.64, we get these numbers at 6300 for the Cossie:

5th: 166
4th: 126
3rd: 92
2nd: 60
1st: 35

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Highlander on May 19^th, 2010, 12:29pm

its just the bellhousing of the 4x4 thats used, the gear part is from the diesel (or late 2.3 which was revised to the same 0.75 final drive ratio)

2.3 uses the 3.91 diff (Ford spec sheet is wrong) and the diesel is 3.36 which is the tallest

2.0 16v is 4.27
2.0 8v is 4.09
2.3 16v is 3.91
2.9 12v is 3.64
2.9 24v is 3.64
2.5 TD is 3.36

some of the Ford literature incorrectly shows the wrong diff ratios

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Matt on May 19^th, 2010, 1:23pm

also remember an auto will not rev out all the way in 4th,

ive not had the car on a full flat out run since the manual was installed as the clutch starts slipping badly at 120, (using a 4 pot escort clutch atm),

my engine also revs up faster as its not having to rotate the torque converter and oil pump of the auto box

as craig says i do plan to pop a 2ltr diff under the back end, mainly just for a laugh but i reckon the speed and rpm match will be nearly the same as the auto, the whole lot may have to go and be replaced with something stronger when the 4.0 24v goes in, that beastie will put out a fair chunk extra torque over the 2.9, and i like the of a 6 speed skyline box, saves rebulding a mt75 every time i fancy a bit of round about fun ;D

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 19^th, 2010, 1:43pm

It will not rev out with a diesel manual, either - you will need a lot of power to do 166 mph. That's why the older 5-speed with a 0.83 top ratio should be nigh on perfect, with the car perhaps able to pull the 151 mph with the help of a long hill and a good tailwind.

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Highlander on May 19^th, 2010, 2:15pm

Does it really matter if it does 151 or 166? ;D

I have a query, Dave might know the answer...

With the setup i have, 24v auto with 4.27 diff or indeed with Matts MT75 if he fits it with the 4.27 diff, would it be possible to swap the top gear for one with a different ratio to bring the rpm back down closer to normal for motorway cruising.

i.e.

when i put my foot down for a bit of take off fun i'm never going to be doing excessive speeds, I normally dont go over 80 so for fast acceleration my top gear will never be used.
So I put it in Sport mode and disable overdrive and take off.
Once I remember I'm not 17 anymore and level out around 80 I press the OD and top gear resumes service for cruising on the motorway although because of the 4.27 diff its revving 1000rpm higher, can this gear be replaced with one to give me "normal" RPM?
I assume this would make it not very responsive in top but the idea of a 24v manual with a 4.27 diff and the 0-60 performance that would give combined with the 40 mpg Matt is seeing sounds VERY tempting :)

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Matt on May 19^th, 2010, 3:03pm

its just gears so id say in theory yes it should be possible but daves the expert on auto boxes,

its more like 37 mpg but still great for a cossie :P

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Highlander on May 19^th, 2010, 3:05pm

possible = expensive i bet ;)

So we'd be looking for approx 0.5 ratio for the manual to bring it back into line?

I bet these big muscle cars or heavy 4x4 things have that sort of ratio somewhere..

Are we onto something Dave or talking B****ks ;D

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Highlander on May 19^th, 2010, 3:24pm

Tremec T56 gearbox installed in the Ford Mustang and Falcon and other high powered stuff has low final drive ratios 0.5 - 0.7

http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_help/html/Ford/Ford_Transmissions_Main.htm#5%20Man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg-Warner_T-56_transmission

Sorry Faffi, hijacked your thread a bit ;D

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 19^th, 2010, 4:46pm

Hijacking is good :)

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Dave2302 on May 19^th, 2010, 9:48pm

Guys, no you're not talking cods lol ;)

I beleive that what I have in my 24V auto "Frakenstein" Transmision is the highest top gear ratio. Definitely taller than a stock 24V O/D gearset.

I rebuilt the std 24V auto box with late type Explorer guts. They have a taller top gear. They also have wider bands, more clutches in the packs and stronger sprags.

They are pretty much un burstable, much stronger than any MT75 on its best day lol.
Thats why its going in my 4x4 24V Puma, with a 4x4 transfer on the back of it.

I had my 24V ECU reprogrammed with Explorer tranny map, so I get 5 gears and a later converter lock, giving me 6 shifts in all. It's also got up and down 'tippy' inputs on 2 spare ECU pins, though I never had these wired up in the Scorpio.

As yet they are untested, I never got round to wiring up the steering wheel in the Scorpio.
But the theory is you slap the gearstick into position '1' and leave it there, which engages the low band to give engine braking, in all gaers. Then you use the steering wheel buttons to shift it up / down thru the gears. Depending on the engine temp and load the converter should also lock in 3,4 and 5.

I can build these boxes for not much more than a normal rebuild charge if you supply me a knacked 24V box and a half knacked Explorer tranny.

The ECU re flash is now gonna be a sod, cos my mate did it, he works for a company who do all the mapping on Fords, GM's and other major motor manufacturers around the world.

Problem is he split with his missus and has gone awol, so unless we can find someone else with the software or I can locate him again, the ECU is now the problem, and I only have the one thats been done lol :)

Regards Dave

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Dave2302 on May 19^th, 2010, 9:56pm

Oh amd regards MT75's I think you can use one of the "transit" 5th gear sets which is higher, around 0.6:1 IIRC.

I know I stripped loads of Transit boxes years ago just to find one, cos my 24V 4x4 Saff used to hit the rev limiter at around 145 in 5th. After fitting the taller 5th I got nicked on Vascar at 166 pmsl Copped a 3 month ban and 800 quid fine for that b@stard lol.

Cheers Dave

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 19^th, 2010, 10:58pm

What about the 5-tronic boxes fitted to Mondeos etc? It will lock the converter in every gear, I think, definitely from 2nd gear upwards. I have one in my current Mondeo diesel - and I hate it. It tends to go in and out of lock a lot in the lower gears, much less so in 4th and 5th. Furthermore, it shifts way to slowly - it is quite common to come to a complete stop at an intersection and start moving again only to be halfway across the road before it finally engages 1st gear. Can actually be dangerous because you lose a lot of time when it is trying to sort out if it's going to engage 1st or not. Kick-down is also a slow affair; not only does it take a second from the pedal is floored until things starts to happen, it also visits 4th briefly on its way down to 3rd. Or 3rd on its way to second.

My old 2.9 cologne Scorpio would go from 4th to 2nd instantly, no delay I could detect. It would shift quicker on kick-down than I could have done manually. And it went directly from 4th to 2nd. Lovely box, albeit geared a bit too tall for the power at hand. Also, asking for enough power to unlock it when it had locked up in 3rd or 4th gear gave a very loud clunk. I learned to let off the throttle, which would free things, and downshift before hills that I knew it would struggle to climb in order to save the 'box. Kick-down, however, was smooth even from a locked position.

Anybody know if the more advanced version of the autobox in the Cosworth operates in a similar manner? From what I gather, you decide whether it should be locked up or not in top gear by the touch of a button? That sounds like a better solution than the auto-lockup in the Cologne, which was a pain when cruising around the speed of lockup (just under 45 mph indicated) in a line of cars not going at a steady speed or if there was a lot of up and downs on the road, which would have both 3rd and 4th go constantly in and out of lock.

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 19^th, 2010, 11:00pm

on 05/19/10 at 21:56:32, Dave2302 wrote:

After fitting the taller 5th I got nicked on Vascar at 166 pmsl Copped a 3 month ban and 800 quid fine for that b@stard lol.

That is seriously fast! Here in Norway that would probably have yielded 3 months in prison + 3-5 years ban as well as a very serious fine.

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 20^th, 2010, 7:20am

Same numbers for a 4.27 ratio, in case anybody should care:

4th: 143
3rd: 107
2nd: 73
1st: 43

4.09:

4th: 150
3rd: 112
2nd: 77
1st: 45

3.91:

4th: 156
3rd: 117
2nd: 80
1st: 47

3.36

4th: 182
3rd: 137
2nd: 93
1st: 55

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Highlander on May 20^th, 2010, 9:32am

Can't find the Transit box that was fitted with the 0.6 fifth gear.

Another forum mentioned that some of the Cosworth 4x4 MT75's were fitted with a 1:1 4th gear and a 0.63 fifth gear??

Anybody know of that?

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 20^th, 2010, 10:31am

Could be a typo since they have a 0.83?

BTW, who would be the right person to update the data on both the ratios on the automatic (missing in the spec sheets but listed above) as well as correcting the ones regarding the 2.3 final drive ratios?

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Dave2302 on May 20^th, 2010, 10:34am

Faffi

Mondeo box is a no no for anythng other than transverse and its too heavy / unreliable.
Electronic boxes are slower to shift than full hydraulic ones.
The button on Scorpio autos just holds off the 4th gear not the lockup

Stuart,

AFAIK all MT75's are 1:1 in 4th, as are most manuals.
Yes 0.63 is the MT75 top ratio and it was in some transits, but was not identifiable except when you stripped 'em down. We guessed it may have been the "Tourneo" minibus version, but at the time I had loads of 'em so just stripped a few till I found the right one.

Cheers Dave

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Highlander on May 20^th, 2010, 11:20am

on 05/20/10 at 10:31:51, faffi wrote:

BTW, who would be the right person to update the data on both the ratios on the automatic (missing in the spec sheets but listed above) as well as correcting the ones regarding the 2.3 final drive ratios?

The Ford Motor Company ;D

So would the fifth gear in my spare 4x4 box be the one i'm after Dave?

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 20^th, 2010, 11:22am

Thank you for the update, Dave :)

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 20^th, 2010, 11:26am

on 05/20/10 at 11:20:24, Highlander wrote:

The Ford Motor Company ;D

Is it them who have posted the data on this site (main site, not the forum) ? I just thought, since we know have the ratios for the Cosworth (which probably is the same for the others as well? ) that it would be nice to make it easily accessible also for the future in case there are other eccentrics like me around :P

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Highlander on May 20^th, 2010, 11:32am

Its all Ford copyrighted literature thats on the main site, easy enough to edit it BUT there are probably legal issues to publishing altered copyrighted material (even if its wrong) ;D

Who knows?

p.s. looks like the XR4x4 and Cosworth do have a 0.83 fifth gear...not 0.63

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 20^th, 2010, 12:02pm

The data could be submitted with "from unconfirmed sources" or "unofficial figures" without altering the Ford supplied data. As it is, the figures for the gear ratios of the manual gearboxes are listed, but there are no ratios listed for the automatics.

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Dave2302 on May 20^th, 2010, 1:11pm

Yeah Im positive the 0.63 came from a Transit Gearbox, its also possible some Diesel MT75 Boxes have it, I will look into this for you.

Cheers Dave

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Dave2302 on May 20^th, 2010, 1:33pm

Right, just delved back thru the archives on my old laptop lol !!

Diesel MT75 Scorpio boxes have 0.75:1 5th gears.
You need the layshaft and 5th gear from this box, and the 0.75's have thicker, stronger looking teeth with an ident line running around the centre of the cogs.
These will drop yr RPM by just over 300rpm in 5th gear.

0.63:1 was an option on Tourneo / SWB Minibus Transits and are rare, but the reason I found one was I used to do rebuilds for a minibus rental firm and got a load of old units off them for bitz.
If you can find one, you drop around 800rpm in top gear.

Doh....most of these got scrapped when I moved up to Scotland :(
Cos I was the only one at the firm who did manuals and autos, so a lot of my boxes got binned :(
Will have a rummage in October when I next go doon sooth.

HTH Dave

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 30^th, 2010, 9:26pm

on 05/18/10 at 12:00:12, Matt wrote:

stick a manual box in it and get the best of both worlds :D

on 05/18/10 at 12:58:40, faffi wrote:

Is there a writeup somewhere about what's required for this?

This gives an overview. Not for the faint of heart! I think I'd rather go for a shorter final drive ratio and keep the auto if I wanted more performance!

http://www.granada-and-scorpio-online.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13289

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Matt on May 31^st, 2010, 1:40pm

its really not that bad if you buy a donor car like i did

for ease of auto removal and manual fitting i dropped the engine out the bottom by removing it along with the subframe,

flip the flange plate on the brake servo 180 and the manual peddle box fits straight in prop and all other bits including the hydraulic clutch is all off the diesel donor

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by faffi on May 31^st, 2010, 2:23pm

I still think that you need more than a little interest in wrenching to do it. Could I do it? Most likely. But for me, the payoff isn't big enough to warrant it. Last year, I mingled a Triumph Daytona and a Triumph Thunderbird into a Daybird. It was more time consuming than difficult. The benefit is that I know have the only bike of its kind in the world. But when I consider the time and money spent, time and money I will never get back, I probably wouldn't have done it again if I knew what was involved.

The limited number of manual conversions suggests I may not be entirely alone in my opinion :D

There are also a couple of benefits with automatics that shouldn't be ignored. Smooth shifts without having to think, quick access to power (at least my 2.9 would downshift from 4th to 2nd instantly) and very relaxing when sitting in a cue during stop and go traffic every morning.

Still, I think it is cool that somebody perform these mods 8) And the performance gains should be very easily felt as well :)

Title: Re: Is the Cosworth geared too tall?
Post by Mike H on Jun 1^st, 2010, 1:15pm

Good points about the auto, I do prefer 'em must admit ;D