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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> To scrap, repair or break?
        
(Message started by: Toriitom on Jul 23^rd, 2010, 12:43pm)

Title: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Toriitom on Jul 23^rd, 2010, 12:43pm

I am looking for some advice from you fellow Scorpio owners.

I have a 95 M reg 2.0L Ultima Estate in good condition (no rust, regularly serviced, drive excellently, odd small dent but not excessive for a 15-year old car).

Last Thursday I was driving through Tesco car-park after dropping the missus off at the front door. I spotted a space in the next lane so at the top of the lane I turned left and left again. I was just about to straighten up when this nutter reversed at speed out of the space he was in and made contact with my front O/S. He drove forward as I got out of my car. When he came back to the rear of his car I was examining the damage. He says ' I didn't see you there' and I replied 'well, I'm driving a big enough car'. I got back into my car and drove to the empty space I had seen. I returned to the back of his car and asked how he intended to deal with the matter - giving him the opportunity to pay for the damage without involving insurance companies. He pondered for a moment and replies ' I'll go 50-50 with you'. I reminded him that it was him that reversed into me. I said to him that if he didn't wish to resolve the matter without involvement of insurance companies, then so bit it; we will let the insurance sort it out.
I returned to my car to get a pen and paper to record his details and he came to examine my damage which is the headlight glass, the bumper, the wing and the fog light. When I got home I rang my insurance to report the accident.

I went to the insurance companies approved repairer and later that day I got a call from a salvage company wanting to come and uplift my car. I told them to hold on until I find what the insurance company says.
I phoned the insurance company and they tell me that they are writing-off my car as it is has excessive mileage (104000) and it would be uneconomical to repair. I asked how 104k was excessive mileage on a 15 year old car to which she came back with 'the car is only worth £460 and it would be uneconomical'. I questioned why was I asked what the car was worth when I insured it and why did they accept my valuation of £1250 if the car was only worth £460. She said that if I can show her other vehicles for sale at a higher price then they will reconsider their valuation. I can buy the car from the insurance company for £27.60 ie If I retain the car they will take £27.60 from what they would pay me. If I repaired the car it would have to be tested to put back on the road.

So, what is my car worth? Would it be worth getting the parts and repairing it myself? or Should I break it for parts?

I have a few pictures that I can upload if it helps.

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Highlander on Jul 23^rd, 2010, 12:55pm

Hassle them for a better price, they will up their offer.

Its in their interest to make a low offer as plenty people will accept the first figure ;)

plenty cars for sale at a lot more than £460 so it should be easy to provide them with plenty evidence.

It will be a category D write off if its uneconomical to repair, usually between 60% and 100% of the cars value.

I'm quite sure any self respecting insure repair shop will be able to quote you £1000 plus for the work that needs done ;)

Sounds a similar one to Scorpiomans shunt, probably a bit less damage..

i think he was quoted well over £2000

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=news;action=display;num=1134806945

If its a good car buy it back and fix it, i can send you the bits you need in exchange for some Guinness ;)

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by gozz on Jul 23^rd, 2010, 3:16pm

Yes take Highlander up on his offer,the bloody insurance outfits are much too fond of destroying good vehicles,I've been in the situation where they took the vehicle from the repairers to a compound before an agreement was made as to what we were doing with it.The repairer wanted £2000 for the job,I did it for £300 including paintwork,stick to your guns.The car won't have to be 'tested' as such,it just has a VIC,vehicle identity check,at a VOSA station to ensure it's the vehicle it should be,it prevents ringing and cut and shut.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by NormanHall on Jul 23^rd, 2010, 5:58pm

I had one of mine damaged by another car, and the insurance company wrote it off, I bought it back and repaired it, and the DVLA test was a joke, they only check the chassis no and engine to see it has been subjected to "ringing", they dont assess the repair.

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Toriitom on Jul 23^rd, 2010, 7:40pm

Thank you, fellow Scorpio owners.

I have just written to the insurance company expressing my disappointment with their attitude to their customers.

I reminded them that when I bought the insurance I was asked the value, to which I said £1250. It states £1250 on my policy documents so where did the £460 come from.

I also pointed them in the direction of the Financial Ombudsman Service. They very kindly issued a newsletter in Nov.2002 which basically tell insurance companies to get their act together when dealing with valuations. If you want a read you can find it here http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/22/issue-22-motorinsurance.htm

I particular like the 3rd 4th and 5th paragraphs.

I will wait to see what they say and I will keep you updated.

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by scorpio_man on Jul 23^rd, 2010, 8:54pm

hi there

all i had to do was get a new MOT.

if there's no chassis damage, then a buy back and repair might be your best bet.

just get a quote at a small body shop first to be sure of costs, etc.

hth

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by adam on Jul 24^th, 2010, 1:13am

Hi,
Best option is to buy it back. It's worth more to you than it is to the insurance company.
I would say the ins. co. will have it down as a cat C.
So will need a VIC (Vehicle Id. Check...... VOSA) to be put back on the road again.
Log book will also be updated to state substantially repaired and/or accident damaged; identity checked on DATE.

Have a read of what i went through:

"Depends on how you have insured it!
Cherised/Classic or plain flavour!
To a certain extent on plain flavour it is irrelevant what price you value your Scorpio.
In the event of say a "total loss" a plain insurance Co. will revert to "book" price.
You may counter claim their "assesment" with evidential pricing and current comparison sales. Service History etc....blah,blah,blah...
I recently had my insurance Co and their Chief Engineer in a pincer movement.
My 1998 Scorp was down as a total loss (Non fault). After several derisory "offers". They told me that £x amount was the final "offer" for a 1998 Scorpio and reverted me to Autotrader and classifieds on Ebay to justify their "offer".
Reported them to their governing body "FOS". They didn't like it up them.
Within three days had another increased "final" offer which was really quite good actually. However, i then dropped the "bombshell".
All the Scorpio's they had thrown at me were "pre" facelift.
Their "Chief" Engineer had a hissy fit ,when i took great delight in letting him know my Scorpio was indeed one of the few facelifted models ever produced .
I told him to "show me the money"
So, in a nut shell. Place what ever price you want on it.
Be prepared to prove that value and don't forget to play hard ball with them, as they will no doubt play hard ball with you. "

Hope this is of assistance.

Adam

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Matt on Jul 24^th, 2010, 8:51am

put the pics up mate, as the old saying goes a picture is worth a thousand words, i know ive got a drivers wing, and pre facelift headlight

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Geoff_W on Jul 24^th, 2010, 11:05am

If its not major damage, if you can, buy it back!

I did not and regret that to this day.

Geoff

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Toriitom on Jul 24^th, 2010, 3:18pm

Here are a couple of pix of the damage

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k175/toriitom/16072010211.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k175/toriitom/16072010210.jpg

As you can see headlight broken, damage to wing, fog light displaced and bumper cracked at corner.

Not too sure how to post pix on this forum so here are the links

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by gozz on Jul 24^th, 2010, 4:29pm

That is nothing at all,it's a very cheap fix,do not part with it !! It's not a facelift though ;)
GOZZ.

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Jul 24^th, 2010, 7:18pm

Barely a scratch - reckon that will T-Cut OK :-)

Seriously though, a bumper, headlight, foglamp & indicator, tub of filler & a couple of cans of spray paint you could DIY that for under £100 in a weekend.

No way should it be scrapped for that !

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Matt on Jul 25^th, 2010, 9:47am

see what i mean about a pic, your description made it sound a lot worse then it actually is, a dent specialist will be able to sort the wing for £40, a bit of no nails and filler for the bumper and then just a new headlight and fog, jobs a gooden

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by PJDavis on Jul 25^th, 2010, 5:03pm

An old Fart in a focus did the same to me on the rear near-side in Asda car-park. He denied he'd hit me! I was stationary! He holed my rear bumper on the corner and smashed my light. I got a light from Spikey's, and the bumper repaired by a local panel-beater, the whole bumper blown-over, total £140. Stuart will probably have the lights, and the repair shouldn't cost more than £100. Keep the car, it looks pretty shiney where the photo's hit the paint.
Peter

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by tlundkvi on Jul 25^th, 2010, 5:59pm

Instead of a write-off and the hassle that goes with it, can't you get a settled compensation for the damages if you present your own estimate of repair cost?

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Tons_of_fun on Jul 25^th, 2010, 6:42pm

Aaarrgghh...Insurance companys make my blood boil !!!. How dare they refer you to E-bay listings for justification of there offer. NO insurance company can refer to auction sites as referance... It's an auction for crying out load. What sells for a penny today, may sell for a pound tomorrow. No , sorry. Totally unaceptable. As for autotrader, there are quite a few cars advertised for well over £1000, so where they got that misery amount from dosent bare thinking about. Im with the rest of the guys on this one. Buy it back & repair it yourself, although i would insist on a better offer than £460. I had a similar thing happen to me when i had a Range rover. Got wrote off & was made a ridiculous offer. After a lot of arguing & explaining i was an enthusiast belonging to a public acess on line forum, who would love to hear about what a rubbish insurance company they were, the offer was revised & i finally got more or less what i was after. Dig your heels in m8 & i wish you all the best... Rant over ;-)... Craig :-)

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Toriitom on Jul 25^th, 2010, 7:33pm

on 07/25/10 at 17:59:16, tlundkvi wrote:

Instead of a write-off and the hassle that goes with it, can't you get a settled compensation for the damages if you present your own estimate of repair cost?

I know exactly what you mean. My thoughts on this type of accident are, especially when it is a vehicle with age, to have it repaired as cheap as possible. My car is 15 years old, I know its not absolutely perfect, but it does me for running around. If the insurance companies would give this kind of work to the smaller body shops, I'm sure that they would appreciate it. But I believe that when insurance is mentioned the figures double or treble and the insurance say 'if the small shop is charging this, there is not much difference, so give it to the named shop'

I remember way back, I know all the clichés will be flowing, that to have any work done you as the owner had to get three estimates for the damage and submit them to the insurance company. They would then tell you how much they will allow and it was up to you to have the vehicle repaired for what they allowed. If you wanted to go to one of the more expensive body shops then you would have to pay the difference.

@ matt
yes, the description does sound a lot worse than the damage actually is. I reckon if I get the headlight out, I should be able to push the dent in the wing out (enough to do me). I will strip off the bumper and fill the back with fillers and I think I will be able to fix the fog light back into place. I will definitely need to get a headlight unit. I will check locally and if I cant get one I will be asking for help.

Thank you all for your comments, it has set my mind right and I will be keeping the car for another while.

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Simmo on Jul 25^th, 2010, 8:00pm

Don't forget that the glass is a replaceable part if you get stuck for a complete unit.
The details of headlamp removal are Here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/electrical/exterior/Headlampsremins.pdf). BUT there is a third bolt. The easiest way to get to it is to remove the foglamp unit. Once the lamps are removed the 'holder' is released by simply undoing a single phillips screw. You will then be able to see the third bolt which may require a long extension to reach it. If you remove the entire bumper for repair then you'll have no problem seeing/reaching the third bolt.

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by adam on Jul 25^th, 2010, 9:46pm

Toriitom, what a complete write off that is. It's a complete death trap ;D
I would get a used O/S light and fog and leave it well alone. Maybe at a push, a dent-master.
As you have already said "odd small dent but not excessive for a 15-year old car"
Looks like you have five other cars to maintain as well, so that should keep you busy enough. ;)

Take the money, as much as you can squeeze out of them. Get a VIC and enjoy for a few more years. ;)

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Highlander on Jul 25^th, 2010, 11:36pm

I've brought Scorpios to meets looking worse than that! ;)

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by lesterlad aka Rodders on Jul 25^th, 2010, 11:46pm

on 07/25/10 at 23:36:42, Highlander wrote:

I've brought Scorpios to meets looking worse than that! ;)

And some went home lighter than when they arrived.

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Mike H on Jul 27^th, 2010, 1:33pm

There is another aspect to all this that might be considered, viz, that there is pressure from on high (i.e., government) to get all cars >10 years old off the road. Dunno how true it is, just something someone told me, though quite a while ago now

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Highlander on Jul 27^th, 2010, 3:07pm

I hope not, I have a lovely 1992 XR4x4 and a 1987 Suzuki Jeep!!

I dont think thats a starter, they'd have to scrap all the classics ;)

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by amigafan2003 on Jul 27^th, 2010, 5:43pm

Quote:

that there is pressure from on high (i.e., government)

It was true of the Labour government but not the Tories - who do you think owns all the classics?

In fact, the Tories are talking about bringing back the "rolling tax exemption", i.e. every car over 25 yrs old is tax free, not just those built before a set date as is the case now.

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Highlander on Jul 27^th, 2010, 6:06pm

I heard that mentioned before the election but can't find any trace of it now

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Toriitom on Aug 4^th, 2010, 5:35pm

Just an update to this thread

I got a letter today in which they 're-valued' my car at £730.

They claim that their re-valuation '. . . is supported by Glass's Guide which is a recognised motor car price guide within the industry. Glass’s values a car of the same specification, mileage and condition as your own car at £730.'

So, I have to ask myself why did they offer me £460 on a car that Glass's says is worth £730; were they ripping me off to the value of £270?

I will write a nice letter telling them that I'm still not happy knowing that they were cheating me of £270 in their first offer, so how much are they swindling me of this time.

I will let you know their reply.

Tom

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by gozz on Aug 4^th, 2010, 9:52pm

Tom.
I wouldn't think our old Scorps are in Glass's nowadays,it's a trade publication and the trade are not generally interested in them,Glass's only goes back about ten years,before that the cars are considered worthless until they enter classic status and appreciate a little.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Toriitom on Aug 4^th, 2010, 10:29pm

Gozz,

You know that, and I know that, but these insurance companies are as bad as the email scammers - they will tell you anything as long as you play their game.

AFAIA Glass's only goes back 9 years and as you say the insurance people pick a figure from the air and throw it at you to see if you'll accept it.

Tom

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Toriitom on Aug 19^th, 2010, 8:31pm

The insurance company wrote to me today with their latest offer. They say that because of the age of the vehicle they cannot use any of their guides to put a value on the Scorpio. So they used Parkers guide to get a value. Their offer is now up to £845 less the excess and the scrap value (I am keeping the car). I have a solicitor on to the other partys insurance looking for my excess and when I get that back I should be getting around £730 and the car.

I think that I will be happy at that as I dont think that I would get much more from the insurance company without a lot of hassle.

My replacement headlamp arrived today so I get the Scorpio into the workshop and replace the broken one. At the same time I will attempt to push out the small dent. Some rubbing-down compound on the bumper and wing and it should look as good as a 15 year old Scorpio.

Many thanks to all who passed on their comments to me - I will be keeping the car after all.

Tom

Title: Re: To scrap, repair or break?
Post by Mike H on Aug 20^th, 2010, 2:00pm

Terrific! http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/images/misc/th_thumbsup.gif