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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> Engine oil for Cosworth?
        
(Message started by: catalina on Nov 15^th, 2010, 10:24pm)

Title: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by catalina on Nov 15^th, 2010, 10:24pm

Have just bought an "R" reg Cosworth to replace my scrappie "P" reg.

I note that the recommendations for engine oil are totally different in the instruction manuals for these two cars.

Main difference is that synthetic oil is not recommended for the "R" reg. This is a surprise to me since I ran my "P" reg on full synthetic and it did 160,000 miles with no problems at all except a split thermostst bypass hose.

So, does anyone know why synthetic oil was not recommended for the late model Cosworths. Could it give problems if it was used? I spoke to the technical dept of Morris's Oils and was told that synthetic could sometimes give problems, but he did not give further details.

If I simply use a SAE 10W-30 mineral oil as recommended in the instruction manual, I would have expected a shorter engine life!!

Anyone got views on this issue?

Cheers

John

:-/ :-/

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by tlundkvi on Nov 16^th, 2010, 7:25am

My opinion is you can run semi-synthetic. Full synthetic will last better though and resist temperature changes better. I would go for a 5W30 Ford Formula E+F. It's marketed over here as synthetic (it's probably semi). Before that I used Mobil1 ESP 5W30. The Ford oil is very economical, half the price of the Mobil1 (over here). I would not use a 10WXX oil. I have never seen a sludgier oil than the 10W40 that was in (for 10k miles) when I bought the car and changed oil in it.

I didn't have any issues with the Ford oil, no "oil eating", the colour was good for the entire service interval (approx 1 year/6-7k). Mine was a -95, but can't imagine why a newer engine made of the same parts could behave better with mineral oil. Regardless of the manual I would never put mineral oil in this car.

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by bonnietiler on Nov 16^th, 2010, 8:05am

It is entirely possible that the correct viscosity of synthetic was unavailable at the time (unlikely) all that sythetic will do is last longer and preclude engine wear. I have a close friend at Ford (ENGINE DEVELOPMENT) and he says that the only reason that modern engines can run so lean and so hot is entirely down to synthetic oils.
Synthetic oil cannot damage anything as long as you adhere to factory viscosity instructions.
Regards
Bonnietiler

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by Pegasus on Nov 16^th, 2010, 9:44pm

I've always used 5W30 cos that's what the guys at Ford have always recommended. It just happens to be Castrol (semi synth) but any other good make should do. Never had a problem and engine still purrs/growls/roars as it should do :)
(but then oil gets changed around every 4000 miles)

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by Tenfut on Nov 16^th, 2010, 9:58pm

I change mine every 4000 miles as well, but thats all I do in a year. I also use 5/30 but the Mobil variety

Tony

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by catalina on Nov 16^th, 2010, 10:15pm

Thanks for your advice guys. The concensus seems to be that a synthetic or semi-synthetic oil is the best.
This doesn't explain why Ford found it necessary to change their recommendations for the later model Cosworths.

John

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by gozz on Nov 16^th, 2010, 11:03pm

New fancy oils with exotic names are continually appearing,naturally they are more expensive,therefore the frighteners are put on us to use them or face the consequences ::) If the oil is changed frequently along with the filter,there really is no need to waste money on hype.If you intend to thrash your car,or go huge mileage between oil/filter changes,there may be something in it.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by scorpio_man on Nov 17^th, 2010, 4:26pm

hi there

ford formula e (5w-30) oil is no longer available.

ford formula f (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Genuine-Ford-Oil-5W30-Formula-F-5litres-Fully-Synthetic-/320549342743?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4aa23ace17/) is the new recommended oil.

hth

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by Marc1978 on Nov 20^th, 2010, 9:50pm

I've just finished rebuilding my 'R' plate Cosworth engine and having spent half a day reviewing oil available, I ended up opting for Castrol Magnatec 10W 40 semi synthetic. I would have gone for the 10W 30 mineral based oil as recommended in the book but trying to find that was like panning for gold in the Atlantic Ocean.

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by Tono on Nov 21^st, 2010, 4:00pm

My other (better) half works for Comma Oils in Gravesend and according to their specs, they suggest 5W30 XTech (which is their Grade 1 oil) or Eurotech 5W30 (which is their better Grade 2 oil).

I used it in my 24V Estate before I stripped it although I didnt do too many miles in it before stripping it.

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by Tompion on Nov 21^st, 2010, 9:22pm

I've been using Comma 5W30 XTech for 4 years in my 2.3

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by Pegasus on Nov 23^rd, 2010, 9:50pm

Yep - Comma oils are good.

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by Tenfut on Nov 24^th, 2010, 12:48pm

As I said in an earlier post I have always used 5w/30 in my 24v

I have just spoken to Micky at Paynes Parts who said the correct oil is this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230522878622&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Any comments!!!

Tony

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by catalina on Nov 24^th, 2010, 5:20pm

Thanks again everyone. I went to Ford and bought Ford formula e 5W-30 on their advice. They told me it was fully synthetic but the container gave no hint as to its spec. So I phoned again and was again told it is fully synthetic. Maybe I'm getting old, but I'm not convinced. It's a sad day when you cannot tell from the container what the contents are!!!

John

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by Tompion on Nov 24^th, 2010, 6:06pm

Googled around and found this, says it’s semi:
http://www.msds.ford.com/documents/161452_E_F_GBEN_05.pdf

or you can step back & hunt around here:
http://www.msds.ford.com/documents

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by Jonnycab on Nov 25^th, 2010, 4:36am

Ford formula E 5W/30 is indeed semi synthetic as Tompion says ;)

I've been using AC Delco 5W/30 fully synthetic for the last 80K miles & my 2.3 engine loves it :D

The first thing I noticed about fully synthetic oil (after a few hundred miles) was that the engine was running alot quiter (less tappy) than it used to :)

The second thing I noticed about using fully synthetic was, that because synthetic oil is made up of much smaller molecules than semi-synthetic/mineral oil, then it tends to start leaking through old/worn engine seals. So you may get a small leak/more of a leak where there already was one ;)

Ideally, changing from semi-synthetic to fully synthetic should really only be done on engines that the seals are known not to be at all perished...50K miles ? :-/

My personal verdict though is...go for it :)....fully synthetic is the way to go for quieter/smoother running & possibly extended engine life (better viscosity at high & low temps).....but be prepared to top up more often due to possible leaks through worn engine seals :)

P.S... did you know that semi-synthetic is 70% mineral & only 30% synthetic

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by bonnietiler on Nov 25^th, 2010, 8:37am

Now sorry to disagree here Johnny but..viscosity..is viscosity..is viscosity, if you put the correct viscosity of full synth into an engine it will not leak through a seal, unfortunately what a lot of folk did was find a bottle 0w30 full synth, wack it in and complain that the thing leaked through seals that were designed for 10w or 20w oil
Believe me if a molecule of synth can get through so can a molecule of dino.
Synthetic is just better in all depts apart fron cost :D
bonnietiler

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by tlundkvi on Nov 25^th, 2010, 10:40am

I have always thought the latter figure represented thickness better, eg. use 5W40 instead of 5W30 when one suspects the engine is prone to leaking, as thicker oil is probably less prone to pass through. But the downside is the friction is higher in XW40. AFAIK the 0-5-10-15 has to do more with how cold the climate is/can be for safe starting and running. Synthetic is also better if the car is used in the winter.

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by Tenfut on Nov 25^th, 2010, 8:08pm

Quote:

Ford formula E 5W/30 is indeed semi synthetic as Tompion says

But is Ford Formula "F" full or semi synthetic?

Tony

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by bonnietiler on Nov 25^th, 2010, 9:05pm

Ford Formula F is 10w30 Full Synthetic Oil
Regards
Bonnietiler

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by Tenfut on Nov 25^th, 2010, 9:30pm

Quote:

Ford Formula F is 10w30 Full Synthetic Oil

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230526945991&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

5w/30 or 10w/30

or maybe both :D

Tony

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by bonnietiler on Nov 25^th, 2010, 10:30pm

Ooops..my mistake..you are quite right it is a 5w/30 FULL synthetic oil..
My apologies
Regards
Bonnietiler

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by Jonnycab on Nov 28^th, 2010, 4:41am

on 11/25/10 at 08:37:34, bonnietiler wrote:

Now sorry to disagree here Johnny
Believe me if a molecule of synth can get through so can a molecule of dino

Not so......Dino (mineral) oil is made up of many different molecules that vary in size & weight (even when mixed with 30% synthetic) ...so there is no uniformity to them.

Synthetic oil is made up of small molecules that are all the same size & weight.

Unless you've just rebuild your engine, then you have no idea of the condition of the engine seals. So changing from semi-synthetic to fully-synthetic may cause a leak/more of a leak, simply because the smaller molecular makeup of fully synthetic oil is able to get through any microscopic breaches in the seals that a majority of semi synthetic molecules couldn't possibly fit through :P

I'd still recommend fully synthetic though ;)

For the full benefits of re-filling with fully synthetic, use a good engine flush when draining the old semi/dino oil out to get rid of any sludge :)

P.S...bonnietiler....there is no 'h' in Jonny :)

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by bonnietiler on Nov 28^th, 2010, 8:45am

Ok Jonny..spelt correctly, I stand corrected ;D
What ever you say..Mr cab
If it makes you happy to believe that a £2.00 rubber seal....with a spring!..can retain oil at a molecular level then be my guest.
Hang on though....just a minute...YOU ARE RIGHT, i've been a fool of the highest order...you've only solved...
just a moment Jonny (got it right again...only need telling once)...are we alone..shhh...?
whisper....
You've only solved the biggest mystery of last year that's all..
We should keep it to our selves..we'll make a fortune..MONEY BEYOND OUR WILDES...ahem..shhh
Remember that BP oil spill in the Gulf? Well (clever that)..well, clearly this was as a result of BP discovering the only known naturally occuring deposit of...trumpet fanfare..synthetic oil....
BP hadn't realised the potential problem, they had their standard Rubber (with spring facing the oil) molecular containment seal in place...but the synthetic...crept along the shaft...then...cunning swine...disassembled itself into its constituent molecular strands and swept past the defences of the rubber (with spring) molecular containment seal...after this with the doughty oil men in full retreat despite phaser fire and use of thorian containment fields, it caused a cascade effect in the dilithium chamber, de-stabilising the anti-matter structural integrity field, this in turn had a distortion effect on the berrilium sphere, well we all know what a distorted sphere feels like....naturally the containment field collapsed the bi-transpolate di-sulphide leeched through and melted the warp drive storage silos, and as we all know you can't operate on impulse drive forever...causing a cascade reaction the tri-spitulate sphere bolts dematerialised (they are holographic after all) and the resulting explosion left the platform a vitual bomb site.
d**ned sneaky Synthetic I spit on your ability to deconstruct yourself back into your base molecular strands...Oh the humanity...The blade was not dull and it went deep and was twisted so
Nurse...NURSE...The Screens!...he's having one of his turns again...
gibber...gibber..synth..small molecules...self deconstruction..it's got a mind of its own..it'll take over the whole world I tell you...blub...sigh..THUMP!
"Don't worry Sister I got him the old lump Thor 2 pound leather sedative again"..."He'll be OK when the swelling goes down"

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by Tenfut on Nov 28^th, 2010, 11:07am

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1

Quite lengthy, but interesting!!

Tony

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by Jonnycab on Nov 29^th, 2010, 12:14am

Bonnietiler, am I detecting a hint of sarcasm ? ::)....It's a heartache, nothing but a heartache I tells ya ;)

......Beam me up Scotty ;D

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by gozz on Nov 29^th, 2010, 8:35am

;D ;D very good JC ;D ;D ie jo nny

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by bonnietiler on Nov 29^th, 2010, 9:07am

Only meant as a bit of fun, hope nobody took offence as none intended ;D
Bonnietiler...and incidentally..I have actually been "Lost in France" before now

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by Jonnycab on Nov 29^th, 2010, 4:33pm

on 11/29/10 at 09:07:19, bonnietiler wrote:

Only meant as a bit of fun, hope nobody took offence as none intended ;D

Me too ;D.....no hard feelings ;)

Title: Re: Engine oil for Cosworth?
Post by Tompion on Dec 1^st, 2010, 2:46pm

Assuming the thread posted by Tenfut is correct it would seem fully synthetic oil is thinner when cold – the technicalities don’t really matter. Chances are most of our cars even Jonnycab’s working car spend most of their time cold so maybe a bit more (thin) oil seeps out of the timing cover or whatever overnight – it only takes a couple of extra drips a night to leave a noticeably bigger patch on the drive or a more oily engine.