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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> New to the Scorpio.
        
(Message started by: The Rooster in the Scorpio. on Jan 3rd, 2011, 11:57am)
Title: New to the Scorpio.
Post by The Rooster in the Scorpio. on Jan 3rd, 2011, 11:57am
Hi to you all out there. Well, I/we have finally done it and acquired a 1997 2.3 Auto Scorpio Ultima Estate. The car is a rather unusual Metallic Light Blue with Black Leather.It is a two owner car,the first being North West Water (3yrs) & the second was private (10yrs).
The car has a number of issues that I figured were not the end of the world but would like to have them looked at by someone that is knowledgeable,skilled and trustworthy with this rather non-common place marque. The more simple & non-specialist with Snap-On Tools jobs I will do myself,but the Ramp & Jacking-Up jobs I will leave to younger more agile technicians. I have an Auto Transmission Specialist in Leigh,Lancashire that will be doing the transmission services and fitting an oil cooler (I intend to tow with the car,subject to finding a new tow bar). Does any one out there want to stick their neck out and recommend a business that can/will do the regular service/replacement of Scorpio Specific items that others will not be familiar with. Butchers are Ten a Penny,but intelligent,patient  &  knowledgeable  Surgeons are like Rocking Horse Muck.
The other more immediate annoying issues are a Sunroof with the usual no tilt/no slide,the two rear electric windows are inoperative & the Driver Door will lock but not unlock,access is from the Passenger Side. The coolant temperature gauge appears to stay in the blue and will then after a decent mileage go to the normal position, there is no evidence of over heating and the upper hoses feel OK and with coolant present,I suspect No Thermostat or an intermittent bad signal from the switch/wires!!!!??. I drove the car back from Reading on the 29th Dec with no issues and all of the Heating/AC appearing to function.
Oh, one other niggle,the stupid little Non-Return Valve in the windscreen washer under the bonnet on the OS blew off under the pressure of working,I have done a temporary fix!!,but I cannot get any flow at the rear wiper/washer arm outlet!!,any ideas,I have checked for a blockage with a long thin pin and get a dribble and no more. The car has just turned 125,000 and supported by a stamped service book and the last few MoT certificates,also the advisories and fail issues where attended to with the corresponding receipts.
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Jan 3rd, 2011, 12:47pm
Welcome, good choice & nice colour - slightly biased as I have the same model and colour by the sound of it  ;D
Your auto trans should already have a factory fitted cooler - just below the radiator.
Rear electric ewindows - have you checked the switch in the centre console ? There is a switch to disable the switches in the rear to stop rear seated kids playing with the windows.
Screen washer jets sound blocked - you may have to replace them if badly blocked and you can't clear them - about £12 each for the heated ones when I did mine a while back.
Sunroofs seem to stick if not used regularly. Drivers door lock problem sounds like a worn lock or key or maybe the lock has been replaced - any key will lock, only the correct key will unlock.
Temperature guage - mine works when it feels like it but I have never had any overheating issues.
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by Simmo on Jan 3rd, 2011, 12:57pm
Welcome to the forum and good luck with the car. I would suggest you are on the right lines re the temperature gauge. I removed the non return valve on my washer line ages ago and it still works perfectly. If the front ones work ok then the pump filter would seem to be clear. The rear feed is via the shaft on which the wiper arm fits. If you lift the 'cap' which covers the fixing nut you will see a small plastic 'L' shaped fitting. It is a push fit onto the shaft and the small piece has the rubber washer tube fitted to it taking the flow to the outlet hole at the end of the arm. Treat the connector with CARE. Once that is off try the washer and see if you are getting water to that point. Clearing the central hole in the spindle and the line inside the wiper arm may do the trick.  :)  The washer pump is just a push fit into the reservoir. If you disconnect the electical plug to it and prise it out....getting an arm full of water in the process.....you will find that the rubber grommet which holds it in place is actually a filter. These can get clogged with slime and need cleaning. If you do remove it clean the water reservoir out as often people add washing up liquid to the bottle and that, mixed with screenwash, will often cause a gooey mess in the bottom of the bottle. Let us know how you get on. :)
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by The Rooster in the Scorpio. on Jan 3rd, 2011, 1:53pm
Hi Scorpio_Mike & Simmo. Thank you for your quick relies. Mike,I assume that the Senior Member Status is not age related!!. I am however just turned (Sept) a Pensioner. The blockage to the rear washer/wiper can remain for a short while,at least until the weather moves  a little further away from 4*C.
My understanding of the Transmission Oil Cooler is that it is cooled by the water that has gone down and out of the radiator before it returns on its' cycle to cool the engine. In the Winter & if towing this is fine,but in warmer weather and in-particular if on the Continent the returning water never actually gets truly cold enough to cool the Transmission Oil whilst it is doing its' own job.
The issue with the Driver Door lock is not fixed by using the Red Master Key,both it and the only Black/Torch Key will lock/unlock the Passenger Door but only lock the Driver Door. I am told there is a guy in Sandbach,Cheshire that does the Fob & Key jobbies for most vehicles & including the Scorpio.
I will in due course post any info snippets that I fall favourable with.
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by Simmo on Jan 3rd, 2011, 2:05pm
The door lock sounds worn,particularly if the red key won't open it. This key should be guarded with your life and NOT normally used but retained in a safe place as it is needed to programme other keys. The procedure for re-building/replacing the door lock is shown On this page (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/doorlockbld.htm). If you have a key fob there is a chap called Phillip who will refurbish them for £12. He is based in Cumbria and advertises on E-Bay.
The Senior status refers to the number of posts put up by the member and is not age related. I can say that you are just a 'youngster' by comparison to some on here!!. :-X :-X

Current advert. Here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FORD-SCORPIO-KEY-FOB-3-BUTTON-ENHANCEMENT-REPAIR-/160524439805?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item25600090fd)

SNOOPY SAYS IT IS AGE RELATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by Snoopy on Jan 3rd, 2011, 4:01pm
Hi there and welcome to our forum .
With regards the temperature guage staying in the blue and then rising into the moddle after a run.
1) Chehck the large plug on the offside inner wing ( has a small 8/10mm nut on top) and give the contacts a good clean wth cleaner. Be gentle with the wiring as it does go very brittle.

2) if that does not cure the problem then it could be a dry joint on the instrument board have a read of THIS (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/coolanttempgauge.htm)

3)The other is to check that the thermostat is working correctly and that subject is well covered on the main site. well worth chceking the sender unit though by shorting out to ground. Please be aware that there are two senders on the 2.3 and I cannot remember which one is the gauge sender but I am sure the OLD man will soon put me and you right on that !

Good luck and again WELCOME.  
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by Simmo on Jan 3rd, 2011, 4:17pm
IIRC the single wire 'sender' is the one to the instrument panel and the twin feeds the EECV ;). The Old One  ;D
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by gozz on Jan 3rd, 2011, 8:11pm
Rooster.
As Scorpio Mike says,all auto Scorpios have an extra cooler,a little radiator under the front bumper,as well as the rad cooler,if yours hasn't got one then it's been bypassed owing to damage or pipe corrosion which is very common.There is another cooler there for the power steering,but that is just a U tube,look up under the bumper,they are on the same fixings.
 As the 2.3 has a plastic manifold the gauge sender,which is the front one of the two,has two wires,if you remove the plug and connect them together,then turn the key on, the gauge should go to the top.The readings you quote are similar to the norm for this time of year,they are overcooled and the thermostat is insufficient to keep them fully up to temp on the gauge when on the road.
                          Good luck
                            GOZZ.                               
           
                           
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by Mike H on Jan 10th, 2011, 4:29pm
That's my understanding of it as well FWIW, in this current kind of weather mine struggles to get beyond the blue as well, heater works fine though. But as you say leave it idling for quarter of an hour and it gets up to the middle.

PS also my understanding the transmission oil is not cooled by the radiator water, there is actually two radiators one atop the other, the lower is for the oil the upper is for the coolant. Unless as mentioned there's been a modification for some reason.
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by Highlander on Jan 10th, 2011, 5:19pm

on 01/10/11 at 16:29:56, Mike H wrote:
PS also my understanding the transmission oil is not cooled by the radiator water, there is actually two radiators one atop the other, the lower is for the oil the upper is for the coolant. Unless as mentioned there's been a modification for some reason.


The automatic transmission oil IS also cooled by the coolant radiator, the autobox pipe passes through the coolant radiator on the nearside.



http://i41.tinypic.com/kdx5qh.jpg
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by Tompion on Jan 10th, 2011, 7:13pm
My 2.3 is up to temperature (centre of the gauge) within 2 or 3 miles regardless of the outside temperature.
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by gozz on Jan 10th, 2011, 7:58pm
Must be that bloody great brass thing Dave  ;D
                                            GOZZ.
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by PJDavis on Jan 10th, 2011, 9:10pm
I agree with Tomp.   Since I changed the thermo' on mine it behaves like that.   Perhaps not as soon, but after about 5-6 miles.

Also, that pic above is NOTHING like my radiator set-up.   I have one thick radiator like the larger one above which handles ONLY coolant, and another thin (about half the width) radiator but the same size mounted in front of the thick one that goes to the auto-box............Honest!   It's too dark to pic them at the moment.   Or am I being a twit and the front rad' is for the Air-Con.............it is dark outside, and maybe a bit dark in my 'Napper'.  

Peter    ;D
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by Tompion on Jan 10th, 2011, 9:49pm

on 01/10/11 at 19:58:57, gozz wrote:
Must be that bloody great brass thing Dave  ;D
                                            GOZZ.

;D
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by gozz on Jan 10th, 2011, 11:45pm

on 01/10/11 at 21:10:41, PJDavis wrote:
I agree with Tomp.   Since I changed the thermo' on mine it behaves like that.   Perhaps not as soon, but after about 5-6 miles.

Also, that pic above is NOTHING like my radiator set-up.   I have one thick radiator like the larger one above which handles ONLY coolant, and another thin (about half the width) radiator but the same size mounted in front of the thick one that goes to the auto-box............Honest!   It's too dark to pic them at the moment.   Or am I being a twit and the front rad' is for the Air-Con.............it is dark outside, and maybe a bit dark in my 'Napper'.  

Peter    ;D


Yes the napper is playing up alright  :( Stuart is demonstrating the cooling circuit for the automatic transmission,the thin rad (not needed to be shown) is indeed the aircon gas condensor.
                                  GOZZ.
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by Highlander on Jan 11th, 2011, 9:20am

on 01/10/11 at 21:10:41, PJDavis wrote:
Also, that pic above is NOTHING like my radiator set-up.   I have one thick radiator like the larger one above which handles ONLY coolant


Have a look down the NS rear of the rad and you'll see the autobox pipes ;)


on 01/10/11 at 21:10:41, PJDavis wrote:
and another thin (about half the width) radiator but the same size mounted in front of the thick one that goes to the auto-box............Honest!


I have to question your honesty! ;D have a wee look at it ;)
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by PJDavis on Jan 11th, 2011, 10:02am
Aye........................I'll have a look the night.    :-[   It's rather cold up here just now, and I've still got to do the tests on my Off-Side front ABS sensor.   Quite fun driving in this weather without ABS, I'd forgotton how much fun rear-drive cars are in poor weather.    :D
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by Highlander on Jan 11th, 2011, 10:13am

on 01/11/11 at 10:02:07, PJDavis wrote:
Quite fun driving in this weather without ABS, I'd forgotton how much fun rear-drive cars are in poor weather.    :D


Whats the difference with not having ABS? You'll be able to stop quicker ;)
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by The Rooster in the Scorpio. on Jan 11th, 2011, 2:16pm

on 01/11/11 at 10:02:07, PJDavis wrote:
Aye........................I'll have a look the night.    :-[   It's rather cold up here just now, and I've still got to do the tests on my Off-Side front ABS sensor.   Quite fun driving in this weather without ABS, I'd forgotton how much fun rear-drive cars are in poor weather.    :D


Hi PJ,I am intrigued by the Manual Sunroof!!. Is it one with the mechanism disabled and therefore a simple Slide Back Affair or is it a complete transplant from another vehicle?.  
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by Highlander on Jan 11th, 2011, 3:22pm
Some of the base model Scorpios had a manual handle, i think Peter changed his from auto to manual
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by PJDavis on Jan 11th, 2011, 5:42pm
I discovered that the motor had been ill-used and burned out.   I faffed about with another motor, and no-matter what I did, the roof wouldn't re-set to the right position when being closed.   So, I also latterly discovered that the manual handle from a mondeo was the same as the splines on my sunroof motor-wind.   For £12 I got the manual sunroof plastic unit that clips inside the roof, and put it all together with a windy handle!   I figured the exercise would also do me good at my advancing age.   I don't care that the car is a fully-loaded Ultima, it has other bits missing from it too, like the rear quarter identity badge that some young gits stole, so I put some nice GT badges off a mk2 Cortina I had in Malta.

Peter
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by Mike H on Jan 11th, 2011, 10:27pm

on 01/10/11 at 17:19:44, Highlander wrote:
The automatic transmission oil IS also cooled by the coolant radiator, the autobox pipe passes through the coolant radiator on the nearside.


Oh is it? Must be thinking of something else.
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by Mike H on Jan 14th, 2011, 2:08pm

on 01/10/11 at 21:10:41, PJDavis wrote:
Also, that pic above is NOTHING like my radiator set-up.   I have one thick radiator like the larger one above which handles ONLY coolant, and another thin (about half the width) radiator but the same size mounted in front of the thick one that goes to the auto-box............Honest!   It's too dark to pic them at the moment.   Or am I being a twit and the front rad' is for the Air-Con...


Looks very like wot I got actually, if you DON'T have air-con. Small one in front and slightly lower which I assumed is just oil cooler. Mind you not taken much notice how pipes are connected re + pipe through radiator, have a look sometime.
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by Mike H on Jan 14th, 2011, 3:45pm
OK just did!

Photographic evidence: box shaped thing arrowed is the oil cooler. Maybe y'all got one but can't see it? It sits right behind the number plate area.

http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/images/misc/scorpio-rad.jpg


And yes the transmission fluid goes down through the radiator N/S side first! Can't imagine what's the point, unless it's to stop the oil getting too cold? Maybe?
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by Highlander on Jan 14th, 2011, 3:47pm
or too warm maybe? ;D
Title: Re: New to the Scorpio.
Post by Mike H on Jan 17th, 2011, 1:04pm
Seems a mite "elaborate". Why even bother when right after that there's a 2 foot wide x 4" high x 2" thick oil cooler stuck right up front in the maximum breeze. Must be more to it than that


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