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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> Front Brakes
        
(Message started by: TomP on May 10^th, 2011, 1:39pm)

Title: Front Brakes
Post by TomP on May 10^th, 2011, 1:39pm

Scorpio 2.9 12v 1996, 104k miles

Didn't use my Scorpio for the 1st couple of months of the year but since driving it again the front brakes are very juddery and the steering wheel vibrates a lot.

Took it for the MOT last week and very pleased it passed, but now I need to fix the brakes. I assume it needs discs and pads. The discs look to be in poor condition and I notice the reatining clip is still on the hub.....surely that can't mean they are the original discs?

Please can anyone advise a good place (prob on-line) to get replacement discs/pads and what make to go for. Just seen some on www.europarts made by Pagid (£20 per side) and Eicher (£15)....anyone know if they are any good?

Kwik-Fit quoted £180 but trouble is I know will also come away with new exhaust, new tyres and a new set of furry seat covers unless I am very strong!

Also, do I need to bleed the front brakes after fitting discs/pads?

Many thanks

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by Tompion on May 10^th, 2011, 2:38pm

If you’ve had the wheels off muck can drop behind the discs and cause them to run out.

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by Simmo on May 10^th, 2011, 3:15pm

Any good motor factors should be able to quote you for discs and pads. It is a simple job to change them, look in 'How to Do things'Here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1304343835) where there is a recent excellent pictorial write up. No you do not need to bleed the brakes unless you detach the caliper from the hose which should not be necessary. When you push the pistons back to get the new pads in you need to put a thick rag round the neck of the brake fluid reservoir to save any excess fluid which may run over. The top should be removed before you start to push the pistons back. :)
If the car has not been used then it may simply be surface rust which can sometimes be removed by driving.....in the right place and time......with the brakes gently applied,ie brake with your left foot whilst maintaining some drive.

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by TomP on May 10^th, 2011, 4:28pm

Thanks Simo, really appreciate your advice.

Never changed discs before but have seen the excellent step by step guide with pics, so think I can tackle this myself.

Not quite sure what you mean about the rag though. If I take off the top won't all the fluid come out when I push back the pistons?....why shouldn't I leave the cap on?

The steering has been vibrating for a couple of months now and slowly getting worse, so am presuming the discs have warped. I have driven a few hundred miles over the last couple of months, so think any rust would have gone by now.

Just seen some QH Discs (www.wilcodirect) for £35 so that sounds good.

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by Highlander on May 10^th, 2011, 5:01pm

on 05/10/11 at 16:28:35, TomP wrote:

Not quite sure what you mean about the rag though. If I take off the top won't all the fluid come out when I push back the pistons?....why shouldn't I leave the cap on?

It won't ALL come out but if it has been topped up to allow for the wear in the old pads there may be an excess of fluid once you fit the new pads and this can spill hence the rag.

Unscrewing the lid will make the pistons a LOT easier to push back into the calipers as there will be less resistance

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by Mike H on May 10^th, 2011, 7:18pm

Yes the top has to be loose so the air can escape, else it just keeps pushing back ;D

As for choice of make Ford Or Mintex is that right chaps?

Remind me the thing about cr@p dropping down the back if the wheel's off is that 'cause they're loose on the studs? While the wheel is off I mean

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by Tompion on May 10^th, 2011, 8:28pm

on 05/10/11 at 19:18:04, Mike H wrote:

Remind me the thing about cr@p dropping down the back if the wheel's off is that 'cause they're loose on the studs? While the wheel is off I mean

Yes, crud dropping between the disc and the hub because the disc is loose, although as he still has the retaining clip it may not have opened up that big a gap.

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by Scorpio_Mike on May 10^th, 2011, 8:29pm

I put Mintex discs and pads on my Scorpio 4 years & about 25,000 miles ago - no problems at all. Would definately fit Mintex again.

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by lleewar on May 11^th, 2011, 12:02am

Definitely agree with that ;)

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by Simmo on May 11^th, 2011, 8:42am

Tom, good to hear you are looking to 'have a go'. If you post your general location you may find that there is a member nearby who would be prepared to offer 'on the spot' guidance. :)

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by TomP on May 11^th, 2011, 10:45am

Well thanks all for the advice...BTW I live in North Hampshire.

I did take my Scorpio last weekend to somewhere to have the brakes done, but when I got there they hadn't ordered the right parts and also told me some of the from suspension bushes needed replacing (even though it passed the MOT 2 days earlier!)....total estimate just under £400, so politely declined!

Actually, I did try the trick of driving and braking for a couple of hundred yards, bit of a weird feeling.....It may have improved things slightly. Should I need to do it any more than that?

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by Mike H on May 11^th, 2011, 10:54am

Could it just be a case of taking everything off and giving it a good clean?

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by TomP on May 11^th, 2011, 11:07am

Thanks Mike.

Presumably to do that I would actually need to remove the discs? Must confess I've had the car 3 and half years and have done about 30k miles in it. Never changed discs or pads on the car. Front pads still look about half the thickness of a new set and the discs do look quite rusty around the vented hols, particularly.

Probably due for a new set and the FAB instructions on this website don't make it look too difficult to do.

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by Mike H on May 11^th, 2011, 1:26pm

Yes I was wondeing 'cause this only seems to have happened because it's been left standing for a while ~ e.g. are there any 'imprints' of where the pads were sitting, may be all it is, just 'sticky patches'. Or rust growing down the back has caused them to run out but I would have thought the wheel would prevent that

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by TomP on Jun 21^st, 2011, 12:16pm

I've finally got round to removing the first disc last night, it wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be.

Please can I check a few things:
I'm following the excellent instructions on http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/frontrearbrakes.htm

1. "Wire brush and use emery to clean hub flange"

Is the "hub flange" the thing that is still on the car with the 4 studs attached? What actually needs cleaning on the hub flange, do I just go over it all with a wire brush/emery?

2. "copper grease between the mating surface of hub and disc". What do I do, just smear copper grease on the face of the "hub flange", ie. around the 4 studs?

3. "Clean caliper retaining bracket and copper slip where pads slide/locate". Presumably I use a wire brush to clean the bracket? Does this mean put more copper grease on the edges of the pads where they sit in their position?

I've read somewhere about "applying a small amount of non-drying brake silicon to the back of the new brake pads. This will help reduce noise that is caused by vibration.putting something" Is that necessary?

Finally, I've read that "You may want to apply a small amount of "blue" LockTite to the bolts before tightening them". Any thoughts?

Many thanks

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 21^st, 2011, 2:22pm

hi there

yes to all of them. ;D

hth

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by Highlander on Jun 21^st, 2011, 2:26pm

on 06/21/11 at 12:16:36, TomP wrote:

I've finally got round to removing the first disc last night, it wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be.

Thats unusual for a Scorpio ;D

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by TomP on Jun 21^st, 2011, 2:37pm

Thanks for the replies....must confess the one disc I took off last night had alrady been taken off by a local garage few weeks ago, but as they hadn't ordered the correct discs (or pads) that had to put the old ones back together.

Perhaps the other side will be more difficult to get off!!!

BTW:
What is "non-drying brake silicon"?
Is copper slip the same as copper grease?
What is "blue" LockTite ?

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by Andycan on Jun 21^st, 2011, 3:23pm

Hi Blue loctite is like a glue and stops the bolts from working loose in theory but because it is like a glue you don't want to use too much or you won't be able to undo the bolts at a later date.

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by Simmo on Jun 21^st, 2011, 3:51pm

Copperslip- This type of thing (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230564297856)
Loctite blue Here (http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?rlz=1T4GGLL_enGB351GB352&q=loctite+blue&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=3709604914548124537&sa=X&ei=U7AATorwOceAhQezltSIDQ&ved=0CC0Q8wIwAQ#)
These type of products should be available at your local motor factors 'off the shelf' and sometimes the coppaslip comes in a small tube. You can use a smear of that on the rear of the pads. Use it sparingly wherever you use it.
The hub flange has the wheel fixed to it of course and alloy wheels will sometimes stick with corrosion. Hence the use of coppaslip. Believe me they have been known to stick so tight that the only way to remove them is to slacken off the wheel nuts and drive the car round a roundabout. Not a good idea and if you are stuck with a flat tyre that's just when you don't need them to be seized on. ;)

Title: Re: Front Brakes
Post by TomP on Jun 22^nd, 2011, 10:47am

Thanks again for all the tips and advice, very useful.

I've been looking today at ordering the barkes on-line. Anyone got any comments on QH brake products? Probably not the best but hopefully good enough for me just doing mainly local miles and a few trips at 70mph on the motorway.

Strangely though I am having a bit of difficulty identify the correct part. The QH catalogue quite clearly shows part BP832 although that doesn't match the shape of the pads I have already removed which looks like BP600 (listed by QH as Scorpio 2.0 to 2.5 (but not 2.9 which mine is)