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Title: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Oct 29th, 2011, 9:34pm Hello, is there anyone that has done this, and can provide information on hoses etc, which goes where and setting up VIS? once I get old manifold out, I may ask tricky questions ;D |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Octavian_P on Oct 30th, 2011, 3:16pm You can't set up a fully working VIS on the 2.3 as the ECU isn't programed to used it. Otherwise you can solve the problem with a RPM switch. The advantages of the 2.0 manifold on the 2.0 are pretty nice. After i have done the swap i have obtained a ~20% better fuel economy when keeping revs below 3000 rpm, also the low end torque is allot more better. |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Mike H on Oct 30th, 2011, 3:51pm 2L 16V has twin throttle butterflies so will also need the twin VIS unit and inlet hoses set-up, I believe something different about the thermostat or coolant plumbing as well. But Ipresume you've already looked at pictures? ;D |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Oct 30th, 2011, 3:52pm How about using WOT Relay? My car is automatic, which means revs are at least 3200 when WOT relay gives voltage (?). Also when cruising legal speeds, revs are under 3200.. |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Oct 30th, 2011, 3:53pm thermostat and coolant things look pretty same, except 2.0 16v has egr pipe welded together with coolant pipe :o I have now detached 2.3 16V inlet manifold. 2.0 16V inlet is under my investigation and needs good clean, new coolant temp sensor (leaking?) and thermostat gasket. |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Mike H on Oct 30th, 2011, 3:53pm We really need sombody who's actually done it to describe |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Oct 30th, 2011, 4:00pm Are you 200% sure ecu isnt programmed for VIS? I still want to check this ecu pin: 44 WH Intake Air Control Valve (VIS) 2 C768 would be easy if that still exists in 2.3 |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Matt on Oct 31st, 2011, 11:05am I did the conversion a good 3 years ago now The 2.0 intake manifold have one less vacumme connection to the 2.3 so you need to T into one of the smaller ones The brake servo vac connection fits but iirc it needs a little re-routing Youll need the complete 2.0 intake from the air box to the throttle bodies Youll need to cut and extend the idle control wiring and agsin iirc youll have to refit the 2.3 idle valve so the bonnet doesnt foul it If you fit the 2.0 head and cams youll end up with a nice engine as you will essentially built a RS2300 lump ;) Exhaust manifolds are the same |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by wes on Oct 31st, 2011, 6:46pm i done the head swap on 1 of my engines really cant see where its differnts is checked valves and ports both the same unless its todo with the injection? ??? |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Matt on Oct 31st, 2011, 10:13pm Its the cams and the bowls in the head are slightly smaller so the compression is upped slightly |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Mike H on Oct 31st, 2011, 10:50pm So no problem then with ECU using the different inlet and stuff? |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Matt on Nov 1st, 2011, 9:09am Not that i found, The engine will suck more air through thr 2.0 manifold as the diameter of the twin butterflys is greater then the single one on the plastic 2.3 one Hardest bit i found was trying ti get the 2 vac hoses on that are on the underside of the 2.0 manifold |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Mike H on Nov 1st, 2011, 10:43am That seems to answer the ECU / VIS query then. ;D |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 2nd, 2011, 8:53pm how about using vis solenoid but use WOT relay to control it to close/open flap? |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tompion on Nov 3rd, 2011, 12:22pm Vis is about tuning the inlet to suit either the lower rev range or the upper rev range. So linking it to WOT means you're likely to get the worst of both worlds - cutting in too early in the lower rev range & cutting out too early in the upper rev range. |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 5th, 2011, 5:58pm on 11/03/11 at 12:22:54, Tompion wrote:
but I have automatic transmission. WOT = high revs, always (and vice versa, except for second before it upshift after acceleration...) |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tompion on Nov 5th, 2011, 7:29pm You always drive at wide open throttle, you never back off to say 90% |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Mike H on Nov 5th, 2011, 7:35pm Have to confess I am confused as well, apparently Matt has done it without worrying about rpm or WOT switches and things |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tompion on Nov 5th, 2011, 7:42pm It'll run whether you use it or not, what effect it has on the 4 cylinder engines I don’t know. Details about it with the 24v are here: http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/vis.htm |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tompion on Nov 5th, 2011, 8:10pm Matt posted scans of a Technical Training manual here: http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1290587487 On pages 27 & 40 of the pdf (25 & 38 on the pages themselves) you’ll see details of the 2.0l VIS. Of the 2.3 a technical training manual I have says: “The torque curve is particularly well-balanced at both low and moderate engine speeds so that a torque of over 185 Nm is continuously available from 2000 rev/min upwards. This favourable torque curve eliminates the need for a VIS system.” |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 5th, 2011, 8:18pm if you just ignore VIS in 2.0 inlet, it's always in "high rpm" -mode (butterfly open). that's not good as it would be. Or if you just connect it to vacuum, it's always in "low rpm" -mode (butterfly closed) so you lose some of low rpm torque but getter better high, or lose high rpm torque and get better low end if you ignore it. rpm switch would be best thing, but I think using WOT relay works good ENOUGH, or at least is better than ignoring whole VIS and it costs nothing to use it. but apparently in manual car that's not gonna work because rpm's can be lower than 3200 even if pedal is floored |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 5th, 2011, 8:27pm but now, my next thing to solve is where to get inlet hoses, airfilter box etc ??? is there anywhere in the world 2x52mm -> ? mm y-branch silicone hoses, in black... |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Mike H on Nov 5th, 2011, 11:18pm Ah I get it now. ;D OK does this help - go down to 'vacuum pipe' http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/hoses/hoses.php#pipe T-pieces: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4MM-VACUUM-HOSE-T-PIECE-SILICON-PIPE-JOINER-CONNECTOR-/250568595214 ? ? ? |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 6th, 2011, 10:38am Hello, next question: in my 2.3, around engine comes 2 metal pipes, another, which is bigger diameter is EGR<->Throttle body BUT another one? its a little smaller, comes close to egr pipe, but I dont see where it goes? from near throttle body to somewhere, where? what is it? It has black carbon residue inside, so it's not water hose, but vacuum or egr? 2 egr pipes? wtf? if someone has 2.3 and can have a look, PLEEEASE tell me. |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 6th, 2011, 11:01am And there is capacitor mounted in 2.0 16v throttle body. where it is needed? |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tompion on Nov 6th, 2011, 11:39am The other pipe coming round the engine is from the engine breather located at the back of the engine under the exhaust manifold. It’s the canister you can see behind the dipstick tube on page 3 of this PDF: http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/engines/dohc2_3/2300Dismantle.pdf |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 6th, 2011, 12:46pm Yes i see that side, but other side?? I have just a pipe next to inlet manifold |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tompion on Nov 6th, 2011, 3:32pm On the 2.3 it connects to a stub at the back of the inlet manifold close to where the EGR connects. It connects using a 90 degree push on rubber connector. |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 6th, 2011, 4:42pm does that breath sh*t to inlet manifold? hot gas at least? I dont want it :-X |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tompion on Nov 6th, 2011, 6:33pm It helps maintain negative pressure in engine areas outside of the compression chamber, which helps reduce oil getting by the pistons & pressure on sump gasket etc. You'll get a certain amount of blow by past the pistons venting through it. |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 9th, 2011, 4:47pm ok ok I'll connect it |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Mike H on Nov 9th, 2011, 10:11pm Cars have been made that way for some time now, you're not allowed to dump your excess oil mist on the road anymore ;D |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 10th, 2011, 8:38pm where do i put IAT? |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Stixy on Nov 12th, 2011, 12:57pm I have fitted 3 2.0 inlets to different 2.3's now i have never connected up the vis and not had a problem i just used everything off the 2.0 and slightly modded the loom as the intake sensor wire has a different plug and extended the iscv wires , i fitted the 2.3 temp sensors into the 2.0 manifold . they all seemed a bit better on fuel aferwards too . And there all on the road still . ;) :) |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 13th, 2011, 9:51am I need a diagram for every vacuum hose.. and where does fuel pipe from regulator come to ? |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 13th, 2011, 9:56am and near top water hose comes throttle cable of TCS or Cruise?? I dont have place for it in 2.0 manifold ?!pffff is it tcs or cruise? if tcs, thats not important |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 13th, 2011, 10:30am I need explanations for 6 things... please http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/dsc05800n.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/220/dsc05802m.jpg/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/dsc05799du.jpg/ 1: Very stiff plastic pipe (purpose???) 2: comes from little device in right hand of car, vacuum reculator possibly? where this goes in 2.0 inlet? 3: TCS or Cruise ? What do with this? 4: two identical pipes at rear of throttle body? again, purpose? 6: pipe that comes from fuel pressure regulator, it was connected to 2.3 inlet manifold .. and, where do I put that crankcase breather pipe in 2.0 manifold? |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Mike H on Nov 13th, 2011, 8:33pm I spent half an hour looking at this: http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/engines/dohc16v/DOHC16VRemeNG.pdf ... didn't really get me anywhere >:( 3. I think TCS only comes with 24V, if so looks like cruise, however your throttle control looks like mine, no attachment for cruise. (?) 1. I imagine that's what makes the VIS variable, there's a "VIS vacuum motor" mentioned page 3 of PDF. Need someone else to identify! |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 13th, 2011, 8:40pm I know my 2.3 has TCS, so it is either it or cruise. "VIS Vacuum motor" must mean vacuum valve behind throttle body (?). afaik it needs on/off suction for rpm change of <3200 and >3200 . But problem is, there is 3 same kind of hose connectors next to it. What is for Vis and which 2 are for other devices like vacuum regulator etc? PIC needed! |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 14th, 2011, 4:11pm where does second fuel hose from fuel pressure regulator come? |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 18th, 2011, 8:29pm Is it vacuum hose? air? I mean hose at side of regulator, someone plz follow it and say where it goes and is it AIR, not FUEL |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tompion on Nov 18th, 2011, 8:36pm The thin push on hose to the fuel pressure regulator is a vacuum hose. It lowers the pressure slightly on over-run & tickover. |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 18th, 2011, 8:44pm right on, thank you a lot! |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by PJDavis on Nov 18th, 2011, 10:46pm Should we be shortening this thread to help anyone else trying the same conversion. Is there a 'How-To'? |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Nov 19th, 2011, 12:46pm if EGR pipes come from down, then what is stiff plastic pipe in top of throttle body ? someone check it from their 2.0 16v please. |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by lleewar on Feb 17th, 2012, 7:07pm Tenho, Did you finish the conversion? Need a full update if possible for a friend who wants to do it. Cheers Lee |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Feb 17th, 2012, 7:08pm I had to chase for air leaks (throttle body gasket?) :( and then came nuclear winter... so work is in progress, but not taking steps because its not driveable Got it running good idle, but still runs very LEAN, and something strange with temperature sensor... shows max??? |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by lleewar on Feb 17th, 2012, 7:22pm Tenho, I take it that you received the pipe I sent you?? Lee |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Feb 17th, 2012, 7:23pm on 02/17/12 at 19:22:24, lleewar wrote:
Yea, Felt like christmas came when I got it. thank you! |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Matt on Feb 20th, 2012, 6:06pm Quote:
Could be an air lock in the head? |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on Apr 30th, 2012, 12:44pm I need info of crankshaft breather pipe. Where should I connect it? I know where it goes in 2.3, but theres no place for it in 2.0 16v inlet manifold? And is there finis for pressure regulator o-ring? Or someone know exact size? Also finis for 2.0 16v throttle body gasket? I still dont get wtf is going on with temperature sensor. |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on May 1st, 2012, 12:28pm When I press trip button and choose ENG TEMP, it shows "5-c"?! yes. five hyphen c ??? shouldnt it show hex values 0-255 ? is that temp from ecu sensor or instrument panel sensor? AND crankshaft breather pipe? 2.0 16V has it or not? where it goes? |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tompion on May 1st, 2012, 12:48pm If you look at the cylinder head for 2L 16v PDF here: http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/DOHC2Lmanual.htm it shows on page 4 the breather connecting under the manifold close to the head. |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tompion on May 1st, 2012, 1:04pm Just checked on my 2.3. The diagnostic shows the readings for the instrument panel sensor. With the gauge sender disconnected the diagnostic shows 255 & the needle is at minimum. With the gauge sender disconnected and the 2 wires in the plug shorted it shows 5-c & the needle is at maximum. It’s actually S-C See here: http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/instreset.htm |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on May 1st, 2012, 3:13pm on 05/01/12 at 12:48:37, Tompion wrote:
It has two pipes to manifold? now thats interesting now I understand what Matt said earlier quote: "Hardest bit i found was trying ti get the 2 vac hoses on that are on the underside of the 2.0 manifold " |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on May 1st, 2012, 5:29pm temp gauge problem *solved* idle valve and sensor had wires swapped :D I had a look of inlet manifold. Only holes visible was two M8, where I did put short bolts. Nothing changed... GOOD picture of 2.0 16v inlet manifold showing breather pipe connections is now worth of gold! Anyone have one manifold around lying? With maf not connected, runs bad idle, and when revved, rpms stay high.. means it just gets air from somwhere. With maf connected idle is horrible, about 100-200 rpm, and it runs VERY LEAN. Got a look with wideband lambda. 1:20 - 1:30 fuel:air |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on May 1st, 2012, 7:19pm http://www.divshare.com/img/thumb/17555279-ffc.jpg (http://www.divshare.com/download/17555279-ffc) what for is that think marked with green arrow? bracket for fuel hoses? And those marked with red arrow? Just for supporting manifold? Are you thinkin what I'm thinking? It's impossible to add breather hoses afterwards without detaching whole inlet manifold? because it's on other side of manifold (not showing in pic) |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on May 1st, 2012, 7:38pm Is this it: http://www.divshare.com/img/thumb/17555474-6aa.jpg (http://www.divshare.com/download/17555474-6aa) |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on May 2nd, 2012, 1:32pm I made it. Added crankshaft breather hoses without detaching inlet manifold! Was so horrible job.. feels like hero now :D someone send me 2.0 16V Intake air temperature plug with pigtail, please ;) Or advice how to swap sensors. old out, new in, glueing with epoxy? |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tompion on May 2nd, 2012, 7:46pm Doesn't it just push into the trunking the same as the 2.3? |
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Title: Re: Fitting 2.0 16V inlet manifold to 2.3 ... Post by Tekno on May 2nd, 2012, 7:54pm No, hole is lot smaller in 2.3. I decided to "glue" 2.3 16v sensor to bigger hole with Sika 221 (flexible, holds strong, but removable) |
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