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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> ECU pins out
        
(Message started by: Scorpio on Aug 4^th, 2013, 10:31pm)

Title: ECU pins out
Post by Scorpio on Aug 4^th, 2013, 10:31pm

Dave(Barefoot Waterskier), has kindly reflashed an EACH ecu with a Stage 1 and NO PATS for me. Thanks Dave.

See here for further info:
http://www.fordpower.org.uk/forum2/index.php/topic,10121.0.html

My original TACK ecu set-up will be replaced with the new reflashed EACH ecu set-up.
I need some technical assistance/advice please to change the pins out sequence for the 24v BOB ECU.

I believe that the injector pins need to be altered to make this conversion possible. TACK to an EACH.

Also, what is the best way to actually alter the wiring set-up.

A couple of pics of the ECU out plug.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a547/cosworthscorpio/5cd354c7-3070-4608-bc70-5cffe617f3a9_zps55d2faa0.jpg

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a547/cosworthscorpio/6ac1d35b-c986-4d3b-a5e4-1f1cec3c3194_zps545874bf.jpg

Thanks in advance for any schematic drawings/advice

Adam

Title: Re: ECU pins out
Post by Tompion on Aug 4^th, 2013, 11:49pm

I have no idea if this is of use, I just remember seeing “Note, numbers in square brackets indicate connections for vehicles not equipped with PATS.”

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/24vlooms.htm

Scroll down to the tables with PCM connections.

Title: Re: ECU pins out
Post by Scorpio on Aug 5^th, 2013, 12:12am

Yes, this maybe of use if PCM C402 is the ECU out plug?

Title: Re: ECU pins out
Post by Matt on Aug 5^th, 2013, 7:12am

You may not need to alter it mate, have you tried it?

When the 3 of us (Dave M, Dave H and my self)on ford power were messing with it we wasnt sure if it needed swapping to no pats.

We had to swap a fair bit when we ran the mondeo st ecu.

I think all you may need is the starter inhibit put down to ground.

Just had my car put back on an emission tester, still nice and clean despite it not having any cats now lol.

Btw why did you have the pats turned off? I could understand if it was a kit car but ill be leaving mine on in the scorpio, the wiring mods you need to do will make it nickable with a screwdriver now...

All the info for the ecu mods is on ford power under trchincal and engine/ 24v

Title: Re: ECU pins out
Post by Matt on Aug 5^th, 2013, 8:26am

Just re red your post. The only wiring differences we found were between a pats and a no pats ecu.

Title: Re: ECU pins out
Post by Matt on Aug 5^th, 2013, 9:55am

http://www.fordpower.org.uk/forum2/index.php/topic,9246.0.html

Adam, have a read through this topic on the mondeo ecu, the eecv pin connections are compaired

The drawings we used showed all scorpio eecv types to be wired the same

.

Title: Re: ECU pins out
Post by Scorpio on Aug 5^th, 2013, 8:41pm

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the link. Some light reading there :D

I probably have more questions than answers now.
Anyway, the info i digested left me with these key points:

"When Ford Wiring Diagram says "with PATS" it refers to an ECU WITH BUILT IN PATS, and when it says "without PATS" it means an ECU WITH A SEPARATE PATS MODULE."
Also:
"Found another pats / no pats difference in the scorpio wiring and the mondeo wiring

The injectors use different pin out for cars with and without pats."

"With pats
70
96
20
95
93
94

Without pats (although i think all 24v scorps were pats)
75
101
74
100
73
99

Live side in both cases is still fuse 37 (20A)

fuel pump trigger on the mondeo with pats its 54 and with out its 80"

I have the exact opposite to the following:

"Another interesting experiment might be to wire a "With PATS ECU" to the "Without PATS" pin outs and see if it then runs"

No Matt, not tried to plug and play as yet. Will do this first when it arrives.

As to why NO PATS?

The legacy project I have started had an initial ECU/PATS fault.
A good place to start with a stage one and PATS OFF to remedy both faults.A change of ECU and an increase in drive-ability A standalone CAT 1 will be fitted to overcome NO PATS.

The legacy will be a 24v manual, 2 litre diff and supercharged with a remap. Looking at Eaton M62 to supercharge.
See here for supercharger:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBbAYNRbcWQ

Diff and Remap done.

Anyway, back to the issue in hand. Does the FORD TIS show any difference in pins out from an internal PATS to a separate PATS module? Or is that now irrelevant? As i am now NO PATS ECU to PATS ON ecu out plug.

I haven't a copy of TIS. Is this available somewhere?

Thanks once again Matt & Dave for your advice.

Adam

Title: Re: ECU pins out
Post by Matt on Aug 5^th, 2013, 10:07pm

Hi Adam

Ill do you a better reply tomorrow when i can get on a pc, using the phone atm.

The pats pins from what i gathered was no wether the pats system was internal / external but the programmingwhen first programmed wether the car had pats at all.

I believe dave M confirmed this when he wired the puma

Your car will be wired to the With pats. As will all scorpio 24vs. Dont worry about the type codes. Only the very last cars that had the wds programmed ecus and pats built into the clocks will be different, we havent even looked at them as they are rare

Heres where the grey area is as we never had a no pats setup to play with. Personall id just bolt it in place and do the start inhibit mod ( which ill pm you tomorrow with the pins etc tomorrow).

Personally i think you will need to swap the wiring to a non pats state.

Best way to do this is pull the wires from the ecu plug. Remove the csp and rubber infill. Then if you use a thin stiff bit of wire with a v cut ( from a pair of side cuttets) you van unclip the wiring terminal and fit it to the non pats point.

Re the project.

Id ditch the ford diff altogether and get a quaife lsd. Youll smash a 2.0 diff with that much power lol. If youve ever opened a standard cossie diff youll see damage to thr little plannet gears, every cossie diff ive opened has it. Thats just standard torque.

Youll spin the rears easy with the manual, so the lsd will keep it happy.

If you need any help with the manual convo just shout.

You could also go 4wd using a modified skyline gearbox but its a tad extream lol

Title: Re: ECU pins out
Post by Scorpio on Aug 5^th, 2013, 11:16pm

Thanks Matt,

Will do plug and play. Then, start inhibit mod. If needed. Hopefully, this should suffice.

As for the legacy, all options are on the table.

4x4 may be a bridge too far but symmetrical AWD would be nice :D

I have kept your post on manual conversion to guide me.

Here it is for reference, a great write up.

Quote
As it seems a lot of people wish to convert their 24v's to manual transmission I’m getting a lot of pm's asking various question about different aspects

As those who have pm'd me will know I have not kept the info to myself! However since this seems to be the new thing to do atm I though I better give a rundown of parts, my own personal setup and the wiring modifications I performed.

Firstly though let me say that this is just based on my findings and I DO NOT guarantee the success I had

Mechanical Parts needed

Non Scorpio

V6 MT75 gearbox bell housing obtained from either a Granada or sierra 4x4

2.9 v6 flywheel again from above vehicles

Starter motor again from above vehicles is preferable for 'bolt on' application

Pedal box and bearing arm if going for a cable clutch

Clutch unit (mine is escort cosworth however I feel this is not up to the job and should be replaced with a 2.9 unit)

Scorpio Related

A 2WD MT75 gearbox preferably a TD or late 2.3

Prop shaft again preferably from a TD

Pedal box and all hydraulic equipment Inc brake fluid reservoir from a manual Scorpio (for hydraulic clutch setup - this is my setup) NOTE! the bracket on the brake vacumme has to be flipped 180 degrees to get the correct off set for the pedals, i have taken some pics which will be given on request!

If using the hydraulic clutch option, your v6 bell housing will need 3 blobs of alloy weld added around the main input shaft nut so that the hydraulic thrust bearing can be bolted to the casting; also the main nut from the 2wd box must be used as this centres the bearing!

I’m not going to tell you how to bolt the bits and pieces together as 1. It’s fairly obvious once you have all the bits and 2. I’m assuming that considering your even reading this you have some mechanical skills.

Ive used the cars Standard wiring loom (the BOB one), Others will say that its just easier to swap it all the the earlier BOA one but thats the easy option

Now for the hardest bit, the wiring, as I was doing a straight swap auto to manual I had the auto box to take apart and pinch some parts out of for measurement and in the case of the EPC solenoid wiring back into the system

On the auto box range selector switch you will have a row of 4 wires in a line and a row with 2 in the middle

The row with 4 wires, the outer 2 are the start inhibit, just chop and join these two together, the middle 2 wires are the reverse switch connection

The row with 2 wires is the engine control, my wire colours were Brown/yellow and white/black, this needs a resistance of 737R between it (simulating the neutral position in the range switch)

So

Start - 0
Rev - 0 - 0 - eng
Rev - 0 - 0 - eng --- range selector plug
Start - 0

Now you have to sort the solenoid plug which is the square shaped one

This one is a little tricky but if you hold the plug so that the catch part is on the right pin one is bottom right and pin 16 top left

Pin 16
V
0 0 0 0 pin 4
0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 catch side
0 0 0 0 pin 1
^
pin 13

Right then

EPC (use the solenoid out the box or a power relay) uses pins 11 and 12

Temp pins 4 and 8 - use a resistor can’t remember the value of hand but I think it was around 4 K ohms

Lock up pins 1 and 5 again use a resistor 8.7 Ohm

Then the shift sols

Pins 7 , 9 , 14, 16 are the one side of the relays (use the Yellow ones out the fuse box) and pin 10 is the common

That the main lot sorted

there’s a little bit to do around the selector switch, just link the buzzer out for the not in park buzzer, leave the O/D switch open, and then I pulled the wiring out for the winter mode but left the eco and sport switch in as these may have an effect on the fuelling but no one really knows lol

I made up a little resistor board for the resistor related parts, for a small fee i could make up another but will only be made on weekends

Right I think that just about covers it, however if you have any question please feel free to PM me

My car has now done over 1500 miles since this was carried out and ive had no problems other then a wiring clip braking and allowing the loom to droop next to the exhaust, so im very pleased

Matt

Never crossed my mind about the diff breaking up.
Good shout that.

Will look further into this when I stabilise the first mods.

Cheers Matt, for your help.

Adam

Title: Re: ECU pins out
Post by Matt on Aug 6^th, 2013, 6:53pm

If Dave has also turned off the auto box function you wont need to do half of that lot,

id also recommend a better clutch the the standard escort cossie one. just doesnt feel man enough under you foot. Ive got a AP racing heavy duty one to fit now, Not cheap at £350 for the kit but looks and feels mega

just doing a pm on the wiring mods

Matt

Title: Re: ECU pins out
Post by Scorpio on Aug 6^th, 2013, 9:54pm

Thanks Matt. PM sent

Adam

Title: Re: ECU pins out
Post by Scorpio on Aug 17^th, 2013, 9:26am

Received my ECU back from Dave. TACK to EACH stage 1 and no PATS.
Refitted and the difference in performance is remarkable.
Throttle response is excellent and the ongoing PATS fault is also now resolved.

Dave has provided me with a first class service.

Thanks also to Matt for his expert advice.

Cheers

Adam

Title: Re: ECU pins out
Post by Dave2302 on Aug 17^th, 2013, 10:05am

Glad to hear it ;)

I didn't alter the Trans settings, but will be no problem to reflash it as manual later on if you want ;)

Also, I've been succesfully using a 7.5" 4.27 2.0 Scorpio Diff with welded planets in the Puma set to RWD Mode for a while now, very rough use and it hasn't blown up yet LOL

Regards

Dave

Title: Re: ECU pins out
Post by Dave2302 on Aug 17^th, 2013, 11:59am

Oh, BTW so we know for definite, did you or did you not need to alter the injector wiring pin outs ?

Earth to starter relay comes from PATS module, so if that's not working, and you get a "No Crank" situation then you may well have to do the earth direct from chassis to the starter inhibit relay ;)

I have assumed for a while that it will not be neccesary to alter the Injector pins as the Hardware Code's are also diffrent for PATS (MLE221) and Non PATS (MLE121) ECU's, but other than that the Binary Files are almost the same, except for the PATS code.

Basically you are using a PATS ECU but with the PATS instruction code switched off in the Binary, so if 'm guessing right then your injector drivers should still be ouputting on the same pins...............

Am I guesstimating right ?? LOL

Cheers Dave

Title: Re: ECU pins out
Post by Scorpio on Oct 15^th, 2013, 8:28pm

Sorry Dave, only just noticed your reply?? I need to set up notification alerts.

I didn't need to alter the injector wiring pins out. Status quo for the injector drivers.

However, you are correct. I did need to earth direct from chassis to the starter inhibit relay.

Adam