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        General >> Give/Need advice to/from others >> Rewiring Injectors, etc!
        
(Message started by: ro284 on Oct 7^th, 2013, 1:58pm)

Title: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by ro284 on Oct 7^th, 2013, 1:58pm

Advice Re 95 injector wiring Please, i have rewired most of the ignition circuit, being a 95 model the wiring is in dreadful state in the engine bay,
having just rebuilt the engine, (head gasket) the first next job is the injectors wiring. i have found 2 wiring diagrams for this model on the site, The first one is labelled -As onwards from-02/95, (the car is /08/95,) the other wiring diagram is labelled before 03/96, i think the first diagram is closest to what i have, and prefer this layout for the injector wiring, The problem is that apart from the multiplug C2513 having numbers, the wiring colours are quite different, (9 if any insulation at all!) on both diagrams, the only option appears to be to remove the PCM in order to accurately trace the wiring from all terminals on the PCM, to rewire direct to remove the multiplug C513 out of all circuits, because of the unreliable state this is in!
The best option would appear to be to make a new loom on the passenger side, opening the loom from C2513, under ignition coil area, hopefully finding the wires in better condition, or re-wire from PCM. Since i rebuilt the engine i felt it was not 100%, running rich! And finally i remembered i had lent my son some fuses, which i then forgot about! Unfortunately one fuse was for the EEC-1V, so i imagine the engine was running in open loop with no sensors which would explain the rich running etc. Anyone tackled the above? Any advice/thoughts, much appreciated, Cheers Bob

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by gozz on Oct 7^th, 2013, 2:35pm

Bob.
As I remember the 12valve only has two ECU pins for the injectors,they are spliced in the loom on top of the engine into a pair of three wires each,so that the complete banks left and right are fired alternately,not each separate injector as in the 24valve which has six pins in the ECU.The main problem in the 12v engine loom is the little 'co-axial' type cable carrying three signal wires from the distributor to the ECU,they are bound inside a copper shield with a black plastic outer,the insulation breaks down such that the three little wires become one and false signals are received at the ECU,this damage can extend to half way across the front of the car,if you need to repair that far,with some effort you can unplug the big connector,disconnect a few other wires near the front,and pull the loom through the panel.

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by ro284 on Oct 7^th, 2013, 4:57pm

Thanks for reply Gozz. Obviously the no-2 diagram i was looking was for the 24v, what i did is read the 12v diagram to mean that the injectors are wired in parallel, the two supply wires in the loom for the injectors are no10,and no40. These are spliced into loom to make 3 pairs each, which are numbered on the diagram no1 to no6, i assume the first cylinder at the front to be No1! So the way i have done this is wrong, as you say 1.3.5 injectors fire on the left bank. Then 2.4.6 fire on right bank, What i have done is to wire 2 looms 3 injectors each, but wrongly as 1.2.3. And then 4.5.6! And yes i have had problems with the screened signal wires; All the wiring is very fragile! Thanks again Bob

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by gozz on Oct 7^th, 2013, 8:07pm

Bob.
The cylinders are numbered 1,2,3 on the drivers side bank and 4,5,6 on the nearside ie front to rear.

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by ro284 on Oct 7^th, 2013, 8:28pm

Thanks Gozz, i've looked but cannot see any numbers, are they stamped on the alloy inlet manifold? do they correspond with the HT leads?

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by gozz on Oct 8^th, 2013, 9:22am

Bob.
When I said 'numbered' I meant that they are referred to as such,not that they have numbers on them.If your plug leads are numbered the same numbering does indeed apply to the injectors.

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by ro284 on Oct 8^th, 2013, 4:23pm

Hi Gozz, As you can tell i have never had any experience of injectors at all, but all make sense now,Thanks again,Bob

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by ro284 on Oct 19^th, 2013, 8:03pm

Another update, the engine wiring was so bad that i have had to rewire the engine loom, The bulkhead mutiplug was breaking down also, The wires into the bottom half were worse than the wiring from the top! So i have wired the multiplug out completely, the ignition screened cable was shorting out again because i moved it, so that is all done, i only have one problem i know of, with the wiring to the top of the heads, There is a violet/blue wire that comes from the Brown Engine management relay, i marked this wire (Injector 3) ! but it,s taken so long to do all this wiring, i forgot how this relates to the top of the engine! presumably Engine management needs to be connected somewhere around that area, i can't find a diagram for this, Any advice please. i am hoping to be able to stand upright again soon! and ready to start the car, Cheers Bob,

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by Simmo on Oct 20^th, 2013, 7:33am

Bob. Does This (https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=EB36F845EA9B8FB6&id=EB36F845EA9B8FB6%21146#!/view.aspx?cid=EB36F845EA9B8FB6&resid=EB36F845EA9B8FB6%21810&app=WordPdf) help? Violet and blue certainly relates to Inj 3 and then back to fuse 37 from a common connection with the other injectors and the idle speed control valve. :)

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by ro284 on Oct 20^th, 2013, 12:42pm

Many thanks Simmo, i will sort it out later, :) i'm knakered! I know of another 95 model a mile away and hoped the owner would let me check against his, but his wiring is also cracking up badly, and i would probably end up rewiring his as well! :( Cheers Bob

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by Andycan on Oct 20^th, 2013, 3:34pm

Well you could always rewire mine and probably several other members cars as well lol. I think I shall wait till next summer now if I can.

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by ro284 on Oct 20^th, 2013, 6:32pm

Next summer Andy, unless you have a garage! And it takes quite a lot of time, As Gozz said the screened ignition wires are troublesome, I did consider running new IG wires behind the dash and through a grommit to the distributor from ECU, less that 3 feet that way, rather than going right round the front of the car, like 10-feet! fortunately the loom wires in front of the rad, were in the best condition, so i ran some from there. i found using a very sharp pin on the meter lead, to just prick through the insulation for continuity etc, Good luck if you do it! Bob

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by ro284 on Oct 22^nd, 2013, 5:40pm

Minor update,Got rained off! wish i had a garage!Started the engine, but wiring not finnished yet, noticed that the tickover is off! in as much as i have to lift the the throttle stop lever up 15 mill to tick over, not sure what caused it to be slack! maybe the ecu has to relearn? noticed i have never seen a crank position sensor, so not sure how a reference point is obtained, any advice on this please? suffering brain fade! Bob

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by Simmo on Oct 23^rd, 2013, 8:22am

Bob. I located This (http://uk.ask.com/web?am=broad&q=crankshaft+position+sensor&an=google_s&askid=e51c7c02-9692-4920-b139-fd66806dd4c2-0-uk_gsb&kv=sdb&gc=0&dqi=&qsrc=2089&ad=semD&o=40&l=dir) and wondered if it would help in any way?. ;)

I also found This (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/eecv.htm) on our site. Scroll to the paragraph headed Engine. ;)

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by gozz on Oct 23^rd, 2013, 9:09am

Bob.
The 12valve has a distributor to despatch the power to the spark plugs,therefore there is no crank or cam sensor and no EDIS unit (Electronic Distributorless Ignition System).They are basic old fashioned technology,and any problems are almost always down to the wiring.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by ro284 on Oct 28^th, 2013, 10:44am

Thanks Simmo and Gozz, Sorry for delay, i keep getting rained off! but hoping to get on today, i have one self infliced probem, re TPS, i left a small amount of wire connected to the TPS for reference, but those 3 wires have lost those bits of insulation with my fiddling about, there are no numbers on the TPS plug, the centre one is the signal wire, marked 2 on diagram. no 1 is Yellow, No 3 is BN. basically i need to know which side of the plug the Yellow wire is, looking at the front of the engine! if any one can have a look on another 95 model, that would be very helpfull, cheers Bob

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by Mike H on Oct 28^th, 2013, 12:35pm

This is why I make drawings of what colour wires are on connectors ;D

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by Simmo on Oct 28^th, 2013, 12:41pm

Bob. I've just looked at mine and the yellow is adjacent to the engine,the white? is in the centre and the brown against the throttle as I look into the engine compartment. ;)

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by Tompion on Oct 28^th, 2013, 1:52pm

Bob, just looked my 2.3.
That’s numbered looking at the back of the plug where the wires come out - with the wire release to the top it’s 123 left to right just under the wires.
Quite small numbers – I can’t even see them without reading glasses :)

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by ro284 on Oct 28^th, 2013, 8:06pm

Good idea Mike, ;) i'll do that if i ever do this again, masking tape is not so good on old wires that are breaking up!
Thanks again Simmo, i know iv'e got that right now ;)
Thanks Tompion, i need better glasses, The misses can see them! (she can solder as well!) :-[
Anyway the engine runs now, it will tick over at 700 revs, but only if i hold it on the throttle!(Ecu still learning) for some reason the throttle stop position seems to have moved and engine will not tickover on its own because of this, it still has the original plastic cap on the tickover screw, but i have to lift lever half inch to tickover at all! So i would need a much longer screw!! ::) but after rebuilding engine before re-wiring, I have a feeling that is not the problem, Any thought on this? Thanks for support guys, Bob

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by Mike H on Oct 28^th, 2013, 8:14pm

Does the 12V have an idle speed valve? Controlled by to computer?

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by ro284 on Oct 28^th, 2013, 8:22pm

Yes it does I have rewired that as well, but some rewiring is not totally finnished as yet, wiring in a dreadfull state! breaking down and shorting!

Title: Re: Rewiring Injectors, etc!
Post by ro284 on Oct 29^th, 2013, 1:36pm

Just to update, the tickover screw was the only proplem, a small screw in and the tickover speed is very good now, i have checked the Idle speed valve with a mulimeter, and the voltage on the pins is fluctuating, as i would expect. also as a matter of interest i checked both sets of injector wiring and get the same fluctating signals, but these reading are much faster, but interesting to see, The electronics and sensors at work, Thanks for all help, Bob